I think I give up.

[PeterErc]

Just throwing this out there. Do you use any febreeze in the outlets, spray any smell good stuff in the house, use glass glass cleaner on tank . Etc etc etc.
Skin lotions or medications, deodorant , sun block etc etc

 

[BeanAnimal]

No particular order:

I would not use febreeze anywhere in my home, or scent misters, burners, melters, glade or glade plugins, air freshener sprays, carpet fresh or any of that toxic crap. The same with those essential spewing things. Aquarium or not, pets or not.

An AIO is not ideal and 45 is on the small side for stability.

Mixed reefs are fine, but chemical warfare can be a problem, especially in small volume Systems.

Flow - too much, too little. Err on the side of too much.

Hammers and frogspawn and torches are definitely not easy. Some varieties of bubble coral are far easier.

Some leathers and sinularia are easy but usually chemical warfare nightmares.

Many LPS corals are very picky and also a problem as they die and disintegrate.

Anemones are a nightmare in mixed reef that small.

Diagnosing (people will try, 90% will not bother reading your entire post or the responses from others) five years of problems is futile. Throwing darts in the dark.

I would start 100% fresh with the 90.
I would keep things VERY simple.
Modest return pump
UV for emergency (Dino) use.
power heads of choice for flow
Instant Ocean Salt, not RC or an exotic. IO is time tested and works.
Tampa Bay rock
New Sand
Lighting
Quality Skimmer (reef octopus with dc pump is amazing)
Skip the Refugium, scrubber and any other gadget.
Skip the rollermat.
Set it up and run it for a month or two without adding your fish.
Nab any hitchhikers, esp shrimp and mojanos
Add your fish at end of 2nd month.
ICP is fine but rely on quality kits (Salifert, RedSea Pro, Hanna, etc.).

tear down 45 and sanitize. Set back up as QT/Hospital

EASY Corals only and only a few!!

***PICK SPS or SPS mixed with limited LPS and absolutely no softies, zoa, palys, anemones, etc.
or
Softies if that is what you want, but if you go this route skip the SPS and LPS for the first year or so.

***Ignore the urge and advice to tweak things, add things, etc. just simple 2 part (triton, b-ionic, DIY, ATI, choose one) dosing when the time comes and water changes as needed. Stick with the plan for a year and you will find success.

 

[PeterErc]

No particular order:

I would not use febreeze anywhere in my home, or scent misters, burners, melters, glade or glade plugins, air freshener sprays, carpet fresh or any of that toxic crap. The same with those essential spewing things. Aquarium or not, pets or not.

An AIO is not ideal and 45 is on the small side for stability.

Mixed reefs are fine, but chemical warfare can be a problem, especially in small volume Systems.

Flow - too much, too little. Err on the side of too much.

Hammers and frogspawn and torches are definitely not easy. Some varieties of bubble coral are far easier.

Some leathers and sinularia are easy but usually chemical warfare nightmares.

Many LPS corals are very picky and also a problem as they die and disintegrate.

Anemones are a nightmare in mixed reef that small.


I would start 100% fresh with the 90.
I would keep things VERY simple.
Modest urn pump
UV for emergency (Dino) use.
power heads of choice for flow
Instant Ocean Salt, not RC or an exotic. IO is time tested and works.
Tampa Bay rock
New Sand
Lighting
Quality Skimmer (reef octopus with dc pump is amazing)
Skip the RefugKim, scrubber and any other gadget.
Skip the rollermat.
Set it up and run it for a month or two without adding your fish.
Nab any hitchhikers, esp shrimp and mojanos
Add your fish at end of 2nd month.

EASY Corals only and only a few.

***PICK SPS or SPS mixed with limited LPS and absolutely no softies, zoa, palys, anemones, etc.
or
Softies if that is what you want, but if you go this route skip the SPS and LPS for the first year or so.

***Ignore the urge and advice to tweak things, add things, etc. just simple 2 part dosing when the time comes and water changes as needed. Stick with the plan for a year and you will find success.

Well said, back to the basics…

 

[00W]

Firstly.
I'm so so sorry bro I love this hobby and that would truly bum me out.
Secondly.
Never ever believe it's a false positive. Arsenic is toxic. Has to be coming from somewhere.
Third.
Sometimes less is more.
Lastly.
Just wondering if you've tested for copper. Not ICP but hanna or a quality kit.
I grew up in a heavily trafficked produce and apple area when I first really started this hobby and no rodi system helped me. I had to use bottled purified water and ocean salt water in a box. Never use distilled. Many companies use copper pipes to make that water.
Just a few thoughts.
I wish you all the best.

 

[BeanAnimal]

use copper pipes to make that water.

Just and FYI: Copper pipes are in use in most homes. Copper pipe typically do not leach copper into the water carried in them. Partly due to typical water chemistry and partly due to the protective oxidized layer that rather quickly forms inside of water pipes.

 

[Kasrift]

Sounds frustrating. I’d say engage more like you are now with other hobbyists. You mentioned reef group you could rent a par meter from, check with them on more than just that.

Engage more on the forums here, you only have a few posts over the last 8 years to be honest. Lots of people here are jumping out of their seats to help answer questions and help other hobbyists, we are all in this together since this is a very hard hobby.

Lastly, agree with others. ICP somewhere else. But list your test kits and parameters you are trying to keep, that will help triage the issue a lot.

 

[alannasfishies]

I know, I know. Lot's of threads just like this.

I have been in the hobby now, 15 years. I have never been really successful. For the past 7 years I have had the same tank crash multiple times. Nothing stays alive except the fish. Nothing. They become giant algae pits, I get rid of the algae, then the corals die, rinse and repeat. I have had all the same fish for the last 7 years except for one blenny that died of old age.

But corals. I spend all this money, then they all die. There is no reason either. I send my water for ICP, it comes back great (30 times over the past 15 years)! I home test EVERY week. Nothing out of the ordinary. PH, ALK, CA, MAG all fall within normal. I do a weekly water change with water the same level as the tank. I have a great RO/DI system. The light is a reef breeders. Par is EXACTLY what you would want for a mixed tank. Softies, skin falls off they die, Sticks, they RTN and die. Xenia, shrivels dies, mushrooms, shrivel die. what the heck?

The fish just hang out and live FOREVER. So over these last 15 years I have taken the tank completely down and restarted. New sand rocks and corals. Always with the same results. Algae, coral death, fix algae, more coral death. Each time I reset up the tank I get a new algae I've never had before.

I'm so done. I can't figure out why I am always fighting algae and coral death. I have a JBJ 45 rimless. I also have a 90 gallon custom made tank with trigger sump and an aluminum stand but haven't set it up because I can't figure out where I am going wrong. Why set up another death trap? So I got to thinking maybe I am just really bad at this and I should give up. I was looking at my app, and my tank has been painfully consistent over the last 6 years since I have had the app. The only real changes has been lighting. The last three years being with the reef breeders.

Why do I fail?! I have nothing to lose at this point if anyone wants to throw in their 2 cents. I will consider it. After painful painful husbandry I was able to defeat my hair algae...but just like the other 5 times the corals are dying now. They were when the hair algae was around but they just continue to die after the algae is dead.

Any advice?

I don’t think you should quit, especially since you’ve been going at it so long, it is probably worth it to get the type of tank you’re proud of. I know this advice probably sounds unusual because most people recommend starting out large but I would get a 25 gallon and some Fiji or Australian live rock and cycle it and do all that and then add softies like pulsing Xenia, wait a while until things are stable then add other corals. Over testing and trying to battle everything I think has the opposite affect.

You can also order natural seawater which personally I partially use and it helps so much.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don’t think you should quit, especially since you’ve been going at it so long, it is probably worth it to get the type of tank you’re proud of. I know this advice probably sounds unusual because most people recommend starting out large but I would get a 25 gallon and some Fiji or Australian live rock and cycle it and do all that and then add softies like pulsing Xenia, wait a while until things are stable then add other corals. Over testing and trying to battle everything I think has the opposite affect.

You can also order natural seawater which personally I partially use and it helps so much.

In general the smaller the tank, the harder it is to maintain water quality. If you pee in the bathtub you are bathing in pee water. If you pee in the pool, nobody notices.

Along with the above, Soft corals are easy but fairly toxic and territorial. Species like Xenia are rather invasive once they do start to thrive and will quickly take over a 25.

Many of the OPs problems likely stem from mixed reefing in a smallish tank. Downsizing even more and adding softies will likely be a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

 

[Jmp998]

Listing parameters numerically may yield more helpful comments than “my parameters are all perfect.”

Did I miss where you stated your phosphate and nitrate? All I saw was ‘I used so much GFO my hair algae disintegrated.” I struggled a lot more when I was trying to keep phosphate and nitrate very low with lots of GFO, carbon dosing, etc.

 

[alannasfishies]

In general the smaller the tank, the harder it is to maintain water quality. If you pee in the bathtub you are bathing in pee water. If you pee in the pool, nobody notices.

Along with the above, Soft corals are easy but fairly toxic and territorial. Species like Xenia are rather invasive once they do start to thrive and will quickly take over a 25.

Many of the OPs problems likely stem from mixed reefing in a smallish tank. Downsizing even more and adding softies will likely be a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

Having gone from not being able to keep corals alive to this I was offering anecdotal advice on what helped me. He doesn’t have to listen to me. For me once I learned to keep corals in my smaller setup it was so easy to go back to my main setup and make a great reef. That’s just how it worked out for me. The guy who taught me this at the LFS called it the tidepool method, create a smaller aquarium ecosystem and it’ll be easier for you to create a large one. I have mostly fish only tanks, but my reefs are beautiful. I was just offering my two cents.

Your bathtub analogy, hahaha, thanks for the explanation. In my opinion in a smaller system there microorganisms are so much more concentrated everything just works better. Sometimes I think people do too much. Too much testing and using all these things to get perfect stats when what’s most important is stability. I’m no scientist, but everything I get survives. Every coral, every fish…(except a couple snails that were killed by a crab) when I couldn’t keep a mushroom alive in my first tank.

The one tank I have problems with is my newish larger setup where the coralline has issues. This is what works for me.

I also think adding tons of pods somehow helps. I do that every other week or so.

 

[Jedi1199]

I personally despise AIO tanks. I have a 32g cube AIO that has been the biggest nightmare of a tank that I have ever owned in almost 40 years of aquarium keeping. If you have a larger non AIO tank that is ready to go, I would set it up and chuck that AIO as far into the dump as you possibly can, then take out a shotgun and run a few boxes of shells through it to disintegrate that tank into its component elements lol.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

What salt brand are you using?

 

[Mikeltee]

Its your lights... too bright. Get metal halide and no sps. Do nothing but skim. Set the skimmer to empty it every other week. While you are at it, clean the glass and do a 5% water change. 1hr a month maintenace...

I did this for over 10 years and never had a problem. Then I tried SPS.... Got LEDs and a bunch of stupid accessories. Now all my coral are dead and I've had dinos for 2 years.

 

[PeterEde]

I too thought the light was too bright. I have turned it down. My local fish group has a par meter I can borrow. I will get my hands on it. Pronto.

RO/DI is a spectrapure 90gpd 5 stage unit. Last time I had ICP testing I also paid for that water to be tested. It showed higher than wanted levels of Arsenic. Both in the ro water and my tank water. HOWEVER, that company states that this is usually a false positive on their part. Weird. I am going to send in another test this week. The kit just came in. So that might shine some light on it.

Tanks has always been in the same place. It's this annoying AIO. I will NEVER EVER use an AIO again. I use foam, a skimmer, the two reactors. Running carbon and GFO. I started vodka dosing two months ago. It is destroying the algae. Since I started my phosphates and nitrates have come down quite a bit and the algae green hair, has turned red and sluffed off, this was coupled with a bunch of other crap that I wrote about in a thread. Corals were suffering but hanging on. Now most of them have died or are dying.

Tank is in proximity to the bathroom on the main floor. But Febreze and perfume are not allowed on the main floor. Since it's just the two of us with my wife being more OCD than me, I am doubting it's that. However, I do use a candle wax burner. But I am not ruling it out either.

I feed frozen and Spectra flakes. I alternate. I feed just enough for each fish to get their fill. The fat old b word of a clown is a bully so I practically hand feed everyone. It has really helped with algae.

My latest deaths were anemones. The tank was up over a year before I put them in there. They did great, then slowly shriveled, moved everywhere and died. So the acro, encrusting monti, and acans are actually doing OK. Not great but OK. Even growing. The hammers, man, the hammers. I try not to cry.

The light is down to 39% blue and 10% white. I really need that par meter. I'll get it. Oh and it's not stray voltage I dont think, nothing shocks me or anything. And nothing is rusting or hiding out in tank. Everything has been pulled apart.

So I need the par meter and the ICP test. I am on it.

I got a bunch of hermits and snails. All of them are still alive. The snails I noticed sort of hang out at the top in a group. I mean they sometimes move around, but it's odd to me because in all my years I don't recall nerites always being above the water line.

Flow is DC adjustable return pump an MP40 and an MP10.

There's a group on facebook AI Prime/Hydra Reef Group
Get on there and go to files. Darren has spent heaps of time creating profiles for LED lights.
Getting a decent light profile would be a good start.
You didn't mention what lights you have.

 

[Devisissy]

Thank you so much for all the advice. I don't even know where to start.

Testing I tried to download the Aquarium Note to a form everyone could read. I can't figure it out. PH has been 8.1 to 8.2 since 11/2022. After the tank cycled my nitrates started at 25 and stayed there, lowering after water changes to 10, dropping to 2 while I started doing 2 water changes a week and rose steadily to 25 until I started adding vodka. I tested Monday, nitrates are 15. Phosphate since 11/2022 started at .03 and has held steady at .025 since. Alkalinity has been 8.3-8.7 since 11/2022. Magnesium 1420-1440...however when I was fighting this hair algae I purposely elevated magnesium to 1520. It is currently 1440. The ICP test, the last one was in the green for everything but arsenic. I am mailing off my water tomorrow. New test. Both RO and Main.

I am using Nyos salt. They send each bath off for ICP testing. I have used IO, Kent, Brightwell, and Red Sea. Red Sea was so horribly inconsistent. Unless you take that bag out and roll it all around then it's bad. Also left a brown substance on everything. Like a mud. I was cleaning out that brute monthly or more!

I am using the Reef Breeders Photon V2. Par readings before coral were 300 at surface, 210-235 in middle, and 95-110 at sand bed. It ramps up and down and is on for 12 hours with a four hour peak of 35 blues 10 white.

The GFO and vodka dosing is because my tank was over taken with hair algae. The corals were suffering. Although nitrate and phosphate looked ok I knew that the algae was sucking it up. All the efforts I made actually really worked. Corals appeared to respond favorable until they didnt...

I have tested for copper. It's not showing up in main or ro water. Our house was built in 1895. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was arsenic and copper and crap. This is the red sea copper test.

The reef is mixed because I got a bunch of free crap. I always had softies and montipora and everything was fine. The xenia lived on an island, the clowns hosted it, until the first crash. In all these years there has been times when the tank was perfection. I look back at all my notes and see NOTHING that would explain the crashes. Old notebook I flipped through, I was using IO and kent back then. Mag was 1500+ and calcium was 500+ but everything looked great. The first crash was sudden. I moved the fish to a rubbermaid and watched as overnight all my corals died. This would happen over and over again.

I really don't want to dose carbon, I was just hoping that maybe it would knock this algae down so these corals can breathe. It has but the corals are no better for it.

So I took some photos of the tank. Well what's left. Much easier with lights off.

 

[Debramb]

Having gone from not being able to keep corals alive to this I was offering anecdotal advice on what helped me. He doesn’t have to listen to me. For me once I learned to keep corals in my smaller setup it was so easy to go back to my main setup and make a great reef. That’s just how it worked out for me. The guy who taught me this at the LFS called it the tidepool method, create a smaller aquarium ecosystem and it’ll be easier for you to create a large one. I have mostly fish only tanks, but my reefs are beautiful. I was just offering my two cents.

Your bathtub analogy, hahaha, thanks for the explanation. In my opinion in a smaller system there microorganisms are so much more concentrated everything just works better. Sometimes I think people do too much. Too much testing and using all these things to get perfect stats when what’s most important is stability. I’m no scientist, but everything I get survives. Every coral, every fish…(except a couple snails that were killed by a crab) when I couldn’t keep a mushroom alive in my first tank.

The one tank I have problems with is my newish larger setup where the coralline has issues. This is what works for me.

I also think adding tons of pods somehow helps. I do that every other week or so.

 

[Debramb]

Beautiful

 

[Roatan Reef]

Please...don't quit @Devisissy

Trust me. Heck, I've only been at this for 1.6 years and have had lots of ups and downs, lost fish, coral you name it...delt with aiptasia, bubble algae, hair algae in a 40B.

I never quit...but I will tell you...over last few months, partly because of being busy and interested in other things than my saltwater, I have now pretty much lost all my SPS on the top rocks...had to recalibrate and do a whole tank breakdown and cleaning last night...took several hours. All my LPS is doing great, but pretty much 90% of SPS is gone. Stupid me...because I thought tank was doing so amazing, I could get away with basic maintenance...WRONG!

Still love my tank, but this sucks...all SPS were doing amazing....until now.


But I'm still in it to win it!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your update reinforces the simple advice thst I gave you.

Smaller tanks are harder to keep stable.

Mixed reefs in small tanks make that task even harder due to chemical warfare and competition.

You likely ended up in vicious cycles of instability and chasing solutions.

Overfeeding, coral deaths, then vodka and gfo to remove the accumulated organics. Low nutrients, things look better and you add more. Things spike, organics Climb and you react. Rinse repeat.

Don‘t quit the hobby, but change your methodology (simplify) or you will continue to struggle. If you can’t find a way to do that then fish only or another hobby is in your future.

Start fresh and keep it simple. I outlined a simple plan that is time tested and works. Don’t listen to the YouTube idiots and the Influencer fools and don’t follow trends.

Ditch the mixed reef until you can do easy SPS and easy LPS well. That means a year or more without issues. don‘t put stuff in just because you can or somebody gave it to you.

Ditch the vodka, reactors, and all of that other stuff.

Feeding less in the larger 90 will be a wold of difference.

If you start fresh and fail to keep it simple and follow a long term plan, you will end up back in the same boat. For the system to be stable, you have to be stable.

 

[wlmalek]

Thank you so much for all the advice. I don't even know where to start.

Testing I tried to download the Aquarium Note to a form everyone could read. I can't figure it out. PH has been 8.1 to 8.2 since 11/2022. After the tank cycled my nitrates started at 25 and stayed there, lowering after water changes to 10, dropping to 2 while I started doing 2 water changes a week and rose steadily to 25 until I started adding vodka. I tested Monday, nitrates are 15. Phosphate since 11/2022 started at .03 and has held steady at .025 since. Alkalinity has been 8.3-8.7 since 11/2022. Magnesium 1420-1440...however when I was fighting this hair algae I purposely elevated magnesium to 1520. It is currently 1440. The ICP test, the last one was in the green for everything but arsenic. I am mailing off my water tomorrow. New test. Both RO and Main.

I am using Nyos salt. They send each bath off for ICP testing. I have used IO, Kent, Brightwell, and Red Sea. Red Sea was so horribly inconsistent. Unless you take that bag out and roll it all around then it's bad. Also left a brown substance on everything. Like a mud. I was cleaning out that brute monthly or more!

I am using the Reef Breeders Photon V2. Par readings before coral were 300 at surface, 210-235 in middle, and 95-110 at sand bed. It ramps up and down and is on for 12 hours with a four hour peak of 35 blues 10 white.

The GFO and vodka dosing is because my tank was over taken with hair algae. The corals were suffering. Although nitrate and phosphate looked ok I knew that the algae was sucking it up. All the efforts I made actually really worked. Corals appeared to respond favorable until they didnt...

I have tested for copper. It's not showing up in main or ro water. Our house was built in 1895. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was arsenic and copper and crap. This is the red sea copper test.

The reef is mixed because I got a bunch of free crap. I always had softies and montipora and everything was fine. The xenia lived on an island, the clowns hosted it, until the first crash. In all these years there has been times when the tank was perfection. I look back at all my notes and see NOTHING that would explain the crashes. Old notebook I flipped through, I was using IO and kent back then. Mag was 1500+ and calcium was 500+ but everything looked great. The first crash was sudden. I moved the fish to a rubbermaid and watched as overnight all my corals died. This would happen over and over again.

I really don't want to dose carbon, I was just hoping that maybe it would knock this algae down so these corals can breathe. It has but the corals are no better for it.

So I took some photos of the tank. Well what's left. Much easier with lights off.

Take it easy on your self. You have fought all that time and didn’t give up. So, why now! its frustrating for sure. I have killed every coral you could imagine (Xenia-gsp-zoas-leathers-mushrooms) when every things was pointing that shouldn’t happened. But, I love this hoppy and I will keep trying.

I wont discuss the technical solutions because Im not an expert by any means. But, if you can give or sell the corals you have now to another reefer or LFS. Then, scrub and clean every corner you can reach, do a big water change. Turn off the light and the dosers. And STEP BACK.

Simply, just feed your fish and top off nothing else. No scrubbing, no testing, no chemicals No nothing. Let it do it things. 2-4-6 weeks more, less as long as you like. It’s for you also so you don’t have anything to worry about and you can take a brake and clear your mind for the next step.