I think I have ich for the first time

Killerflash · Dec 27, 2015

Is this the start of ich on my flame Angels tail?
If so what would be the best way to to about treating it?
He is in my DT and it just showed up after a couple weeks. I have 11 other fish in there I think I see one or two spots just like this on my Coral beauty's tail, but everyone else looks fine ATM.
I have a 90 gallon tank and my rock work is not glued together it was all carefully placed so I'm not sure that netting any of these fish will be possible.
My newest additions are 3 coral frags, which are also my only coral and I can remove them if needed.
I guess a safe, effective DT treatment is what I'm looking for. I've read some and people have different ways on going about it so I wanted to hear from you guys what I should do. (If it's even ich, as I could be wrong I'm still a newbie)

DeniseAndy · Dec 27, 2015

As far as ich, I do not think a safe method exits for a system containing inverts (corals, etc). I could be wrong with the more modern stuff out there, but from my experience and how I handle disease, I cannot think of any ich treatment I would even consider in my main system.

shoelaceike · Dec 27, 2015

Killerflash said:
Is this the start of ich on my flame Angels tail?
If so what would be the best way to to about treating it?
He is in my DT and it just showed up after a couple weeks. I have 11 other fish in there I think I see one or two spots just like this on my Coral beauty's tail, but everyone else looks fine ATM.
I have a 90 gallon tank and my rock work is not glued together it was all carefully placed so I'm not sure that netting any of these fish will be possible.
My newest additions are 3 coral frags, which are also my only coral and I can remove them if needed.
I guess a safe, effective DT treatment is what I'm looking for. I've read some and people have different ways on going about it so I wanted to hear from you guys what I should do. (If it's even ich, as I could be wrong I'm still a newbie)

When was the newest fish added?

Killerflash · Dec 27, 2015

shoelaceike said:
When was the newest fish added?

The newest fish was the flame and CB together added 2 weeks ago

DeniseAndy said:
As far as ich, I do not think a safe method exits for a system containing inverts (corals, etc). I could be wrong with the more modern stuff out there, but from my experience and how I handle disease, I cannot think of any ich treatment I would even consider in my main system.

I would take my coral frags out and two emerald crabs and try to get all of my snails/hermits that I can out. That's really all I have for inverts.

BlacknBlue2 · Dec 27, 2015

Their is 1 that I know of but I warn you that it causes the Skimmer to go bonkers. Its Pimafix from API, all the ingredients are natural and the main ingredient is extract from west indian bay trees. I would actually rather you pull your fish out and QT them in a copper treatment, but if that is not an option I would 1st try to heavily dose the food with garlic and see how it goes, then if that doesn't work then go to Pimafix as the last option.

BlacknBlue2 · Dec 27, 2015

Yea but if you copper your DT then you kill all beneficial bacteria and the copper stays in the rocks along time which will screw your CUC.

4FordFamily · Dec 27, 2015

BlacknBlue2 said:
Yea but if you copper your DT then you kill all beneficial bacteria and the copper stays in the rocks along time which will screw your CUC.

Not true, this is an old wives tale. I've removed copper from DT several times successfully and added in reef that never had any issues. The key is to use cupramine or chelated copper and When you're ready to remove it, use cuprisorb and activated carbon - when copper tests zero replace cuprisorb and carbon again and wait a few weeks before adding coral and inverts. The copper will leach back out of the rocks and substrate to be absorbed once the copper level in the water is near zero. Large water changes also help the process along.

I actually have a species of crab that has survived copper AND hypo treatments. In fact, one of them is in a tank with cupramine AND hypo right now. (Very strong strain of ich, it was by accident and my wife saw him for the first month and I didn't find it when I got home to remove - now I leave him in there he's somehow thriving which is astonishing).

I do not recommend copper treatment in your DT tanks as a first choice I'm just saying that I have lots of actual experience with it and I've never had trouble removing it.

Killerflash · Dec 27, 2015

How does lowering my salinity and dosing pima-fix sound? If it doesn't seem to work or it gets worse I will take the whole rock work down and catch everyone to put them in QT and treat them with copper in there as well as letting the DT stay fallow for the Ick to die off with no host.

4FordFamily · Dec 27, 2015

Killerflash said:
How does lowering my salinity and dosing pima-fix sound? If it doesn't seem to work or it gets worse I will take the whole rock work down and catch everyone to put them in QT and treat them with copper in there as well as letting the DT stay fallow for the Ick to die off with no host.

I would avoid pimafix I've never had any luck at any point in 12 years in this hobby with it or melafix. Lowering the salinity is a slow process and should be done over 48 hours typically. Much faster and you risk osmotic shock a lot of stress. But I guess the same is true with copper.

The problem is that based on the photo it could be velvet, too. Zebrasoma tangs are very hardy with regards to ich oftentimes so that level of infestation with ich I see as not common or likely. I would say 50/50 that's velvet, and if velvet hypo will do NOTHING but weaken the fish's immune system allowing velvet to kill even faster.

@Humblefish is the expert with this, @melypr1985 too

Humblefish · Dec 27, 2015

For some reason I can't view the picture at the top of this thread. Can everyone else see it?

Pfisherman · Dec 27, 2015

Nope.

Killerflash · Dec 27, 2015

Humblefish said:
For some reason I can't view the picture at the top of this thread. Can everyone else see it?

Odd. I uploaded it here I'll try again

Humblefish · Dec 27, 2015

Yeah, that's ich.

This explains how to treat it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/

This article provides more detailed info on the parasite and it's life cycle: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/understanding-ich.188770/

This article, "Ich eradication vs. Ich management", may also prove useful as you weigh your options: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

Killerflash · Dec 27, 2015

Well I just filled up my 29 gallon qt and got it running so now it's just going to be the hard part of catching these fish. I'm definitely going to have to remove my whole aquascaping. Unfortunately I have to leave soon, so I don't think I'm going to be able to move any fish until tonight or tomorrow. I don't have the copper yet though so it wouldn't do much yet anyways.

BlacknBlue2 · Dec 27, 2015

spike the food with garlic to boost his imune system for now then.

Humblefish · Dec 27, 2015

BlacknBlue2 said:
spike the food with garlic to boost his imune system for now then.

Or use vitamin supplements (Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem, even just Omega 3 fish oil).

4FordFamily · Dec 27, 2015

I am so sorry I mixed up this thread with another about velvet apparently, involving a Sailfin tang. I think I had multiple threads open at once..

4FordFamily · Dec 27, 2015

I might also add that I have had MUCH more trouble with angels in hypo, particularly dwarf Angels, than I have in copper. Many many times more trouble.