Dave A
Active Member
Nice! Availability?
I want LED's
- Thread starter vasinvictor
- Start date
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jedimasterben
Bubble coral sting good
The M is out now, but I don't know anywhere specific that is or will be carrying that particular one. Steve's LEDs is getting in the RB and 5000k LXR8-SW50 only at this point. Future Lighting Solutions may carry them or be able to get them, but they probably want a minimum order, too. :/
Dave A
Active Member
I'll have to come up with an excuse for another build. I wouldn't mind trying the LXR9-SW30 either, that makes 3 new Luxeons I gotta play with. I'm not sure how I feel about building with smaller quantities of higher output emmiters, especially with my fondness for passive cooling and LDD series drivers, but still, I gotta have my fun. 
My wife is gonna freak when she finds out I'm doing yet another one...
My wife is gonna freak when she finds out I'm doing yet another one...
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
jedimasterben
The point of my post "stirring the pot" was to incite the collective wisdom of reefers.
Yes the Red is available at 10 meters but only 55% is available at 1 meter...After that it drops quicker than Bill Clinton's pants in a sorority house
I prefer this Photosynthetic graph as it might be more Representative of the zooxanthellae algae
The 24 Semi P2N driven max at 700 mA I have on my 330 SPS come on first and do not wake up the fish or cause the coral feeding tentacles to retract.
They do give the coral an awesome actinic colour pop
I'm more than familiar with the information Dana provided. Toss me a PM with an email and I'll send you our LED brief. I want this open for all to view and use...
BTW Bins Matter Big Time
Lighting a Reef Tank is a huge balancing act unless you have unlimited funds.
This forum provides an opportunity for even vendors to contribute.
Its Been Proven 420-460nm Grow Coral....Everything Else Added Is Looks....IMHO...
Bill
jedimasterben
Bubble coral sting good
lol! :clap2:Yes the Red is available at 10 meters but only 55% is available at 1 meter...After that it drops quicker than Bill Clinton's pants in a sorority house
Zooxanthellae do not contain chlorophyll b, it is totally absent. Chlorophyll a and c1/c2 are the main drive with a 10:1 ratio (5:3 in tridacnid clams), and then the accessory pigments peridinin, neo-peridinin, dinoxanthin, diadinoxanthin, neo-diadinoxanthin, and beta carotene are the most common in zooxanthellae. Showing that graph to people is misleading, as they will think that chlorophyll b is a primary driver of photosynthesis in corals, which it is not.I prefer this Photosynthetic graph as it might be more Representative of the zooxanthellae algae
I have my violets come on first, as well. Mine in the 430nm range are bright enough to start waking up the fish before the other channels come on, and my drivers start their ramp at 195ma (Meanwell ELN-60), and I've noticed that since I start with those violets, my jawfish isn't nearly as jumpy in the morning. He was testing out my mesh top just about every day.
Will do.
And is why I don't like the generic Chinese LEDs. If there is any binning information, it's unlikely that it is correct, as QC is little to none in a lot of the factories.
I've actually got a little BC14 that I want to use for an experiment. Only violet (35/65 split between 405nm and 430nm peaks), 445nm royal blue, 455nm royal, 475nm cool blue, 495nm cyan, and a few 660nm deep reds. Won't look that pretty except for fluorescing colors and some darker reds, but should grow like wildfire.
My point in regards to that is that zooxanthellae have been tested and can absorb higher wavelengths than 480nm. I've never seen testing that proves otherwise. Heck, some favia sp. can absorb light of almost any spectra:
I would love to see the testing from the 60's confirmed with modern equipment, but I don't think that's a very high priority among the people that have access to that sort of thing
I'm about to step on a loooooot of toes here.
I'd expect no less from a vendor who only sells fixtures using cool white LEDs.
Without the additional red spectrum, not only does the tank just look anemic, but you start to lose non-fluorescent colors. That's great if all you want is that glow from your corals that have green fluorescent proteins, or a few reds that have red fluorescent proteins, but a lot of oranges, yellows, pinks just don't show up because that light simply isn't present for them to reflect.
Comparing any array containing only cool whites to an array based on Bridgelux BXRA or Rebel ES neutrals in the 4-5000k range will be absolutely no contest in color and depth while still retaining the same superior actinic response provided by royal blue LEDs.
As for their PAR value, the entire spectra of the white LED adds to the PAR value. PAR is next to useless as a metric because it simply the total quanity of light emitted - I can build an array that sends out 500 PAR at 24" yet will not grow coral, as the light will be solely composed of 530nm light, a spectra in which little to no photosynthetic activity occurs in corals.
A cool white LED does not emit as much photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) or photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR) as a royal blue LED does (within the same family, of course - comparing an XT-E cool white at 1000ma to a Bridgelux BXCE royal at 700ma, for instance, isn't a valid comparison), simply because a white LED is a royal blue LED with phosphors applied to it - so you wouldn't be able to a 1600mW royal blue chip, apply a phosphor, and still have 1600mW of output in the royal blue spectra.
Taking into account that a cool white array typically uses a 1:1 ratio of cool white to royal blue, and a neutral white array typically uses a 1:2 ratio of neutral white to royal blue, an array based on neutral white will have the same PAR using less total LEDs, or more PAR if using the same amount.
Now, to address your issues with colored LEDs.
Note the massive spikes in red. Despite numerous tests that have been performed (like the ones you linked to earlier), deep red does not bleach coral, at least not in the quantities we DIY'ers recommend. If you blast a coral with too much light of any wavelength it will bleach, and in particular to a wavelength that the coral has no protection built up to.
Green is wholly unnecessary. All white LEDs contain far too much green as it is. What they are lacking is cyan, which is pretty essential in color rendition.
Now violet - this is the 'meat' of photosynthesis. You see that graph above, how it drops sharply after 430nm? If you load up a tank with royal blue chips at 455nm or higher, are you really hitting chlorophyll a, the primary driver of photosynthesis in almost all corals, hard? Nope. It takes violet LEDs to do that. Chlorophyll C1 and C2 are different and can effectively use that 450ish-nm light, no sweat. However, chlorophyll c is present at 1/10 the numbers of chlorophyll a. (note that chlorophyll b, whose primary photosynthetic peak is at 450nm, is not present in zooxanthellae)
Corals are subjected to immense amounts of violet light in the wild: Feature Article: Light in the Reef Aquaria — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog So if violet is the primary driver of photosynthetic activity, why is it unnecessary again?
Am I saying that royal blue and cool white LEDs cannot grow coral? Absolutely not. That has been proven time and time again. Is it optimal for both color and growth? No.
Back to the subject of neutral whites. Some 'light' reading:
LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color? - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums
The 'Evil Cluster' revisited - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums
A quote from the OP of that thread, blasterman:
The people in those threads are partially (if not wholly) the driving force behind the LED arrays we have now.
I think I hit everything I wanted to, but I'm sure I missed something.
Benny, you're the best.
xerophyte_nyc
New Member
Violet LED
xerophyte_nyc here...when I first came up with a DIY LED layout design, Jedi Master suggested I double my violet LED output. I was close to doing this anyway but had slight hesitation, so when someone else was a proponent it became an easy decision. Here's the link:
New MakersLED Build - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Worst case scenario, I am spending a few extra cents each month on a marginal improvement in fluorescence. Best case scenario, there is a significant improvement in PUR which is helpful for coral growth.
As for the tank looking really dark, that won't be possible since I am lighting my tank with plenty of photons, even without the violets. I did this on purpose so that I could run the lamp cooler with a dimmer, thereby extending the life of the LEDs and also giving me greater flexibility to mess around with the colors using the Typhon controller.
I'm still some time away from completing my project - there's always something else to do...this morning my son wakes up with a 99F fever, never a dull moment.
xerophyte_nyc here...when I first came up with a DIY LED layout design, Jedi Master suggested I double my violet LED output. I was close to doing this anyway but had slight hesitation, so when someone else was a proponent it became an easy decision. Here's the link:
New MakersLED Build - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Worst case scenario, I am spending a few extra cents each month on a marginal improvement in fluorescence. Best case scenario, there is a significant improvement in PUR which is helpful for coral growth.
As for the tank looking really dark, that won't be possible since I am lighting my tank with plenty of photons, even without the violets. I did this on purpose so that I could run the lamp cooler with a dimmer, thereby extending the life of the LEDs and also giving me greater flexibility to mess around with the colors using the Typhon controller.
I'm still some time away from completing my project - there's always something else to do...this morning my son wakes up with a 99F fever, never a dull moment.
xerophyte_nyc
New Member
Another consideration with adding potentially beneficial light in the violet spectrum is that it could also improve nuisance algae growth. To what extent, I don't really know. Maybe there are some algal species that will change their growth habits?
jedimasterben
Bubble coral sting good
Most algaes will use any and all available light, so any spectrum of light can be a double-edged sword.
xerophyte_nyc
New Member
With plants, growth regulation, flowering and fruiting often requires significant blue light, even though the photosynthetic action per unit energy is much less than in the red spectrum. Marijuana growers will manipulate photoperiod and wavelength to improve budding.
I have never really read or seen anywhere how blue light impacts algae growth habits. Maybe it causes it to go sexual? Maybe it makes growth more compact or more tenacious? I dunno...let's make a violet algae scrubber, ha!
I have never really read or seen anywhere how blue light impacts algae growth habits. Maybe it causes it to go sexual? Maybe it makes growth more compact or more tenacious? I dunno...let's make a violet algae scrubber, ha!
jedimasterben
Bubble coral sting good
I've actually got four violet LEDs on the LED side of my scrubber. You've seen the growth from that side - the other side with the warm CFL has nearly no growth in comparison to the LED side. I don't eve know if ridiculous is the correct word for it.
GHill762
Valuable Member
It's definitely interesting.. going to be keeping an eye on your build.. I'd like to see where this goes..
Sent from my SCH-R530U using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app
Slickwill613
Community Member
My brother lives in humboldt county NorCal. He recently got 2 600w plasma fixtures and says they're really yielding well. How long till this tech becomes commercially available to the aquarist?
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Its already available but not nearly as cost effective or reliable as LEDs.
Back in 2010 I spoke with a rep looking for LED Lighting from the Monterrey Bay Aquarium and they used them but had issues with reliability.
The Lumens per watt were very close to the LEDs and I'm sure if they can control the spectrum we will see them soon or at least in street lights.
The technology has improved a bit since then but the spectrum still need more of a cooler shift.
Here is a good link http://reefbuilders.com/2012/10/05/plasmalyte-reefbrite-blueled/
Bill
Be carefull you get what you pay for. Not all leds are created equal, do your research on par and pur ratings for your size tank. Consider looking at Orphec leds they are awesome. My tank has never looked better since switching fro halides to these leds. Also you buy direct from them. Check them out.
