Ich Again!!!!

[vetteguy53081]

Dose with coppersafe in a separate quarantine setting and treat at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 at 80 degrees for a full 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit

 

[newreef1]

I disagree. Unless the poster will not be adding any other fish. Once that happens all bets are off. Do you @Blindface have data to suggest something different?

I see this white line along the fins of my black clownfish. Not sure if this was there before or if it’s just discoloring? Is this safe?

 

[MnFish1]

That a UV can keep populations of parasites low? I’m confused by what your asking. What a UV does is make it so the current population of parasites that pass through the UV sterile (under correct flow). I never said it eradicates the population. I also never said it will stop the chances of your fish getting them… just lower them. If your fish is healthy, it will also help with fighting off parasites/infections.

I was only wondering if you knew of any controlled experiments that show that this is correct. This is the abstract from one article (in aquaculture - This was just published this year - and If I was using UV or Ozone - I would be sure to be aiming for the amounts listed in the article. (PS this is the article Jay Hemdal quotes below). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848621012618

Jay Hemdal had these comments in a different thread today: "
UV sterilizers

Ultraviolet (UV) sterilizers are also sold as a “cure” for Cryptocaryon. The problem is that most hobbyist-sized UV sterilizers do not have the power to make an effective kill on the relatively large Cryptocaryon parasite. Additionally, UV sterilizers are effective only on the tomite/theront stage, as this is the only point where the parasite is even present in the water column.

The fallacy here is that tomites/theronts must leave the fish. Actually, some of them get caught up in the fish’s mucus and stay attached until they become infective trophonts again. This means that UV sterilization will not eliminate active Cryptocaryon infections from a single aquarium. Where it does have benefit is in eliminating tomites as they pass through a filtration system from one discrete tank to another (like in a public aquarium or fisheries lab). Decades ago, diatom filters were touted as cures for ich and velvet. The same issue applies with them; there are adherent forms of these protozoans that can continue to infect the fish without ever having to leave the fish’s body. Even if they do, the “dwell time” factor means that some theronts will still be present in the water column to infect the fish.

A recent study (Ge-Ling, 2022) indicates that the UV dose required to kill Cryptocaryon theronts/tomites is 185,000 uw/S/cm2. They do go on however, to conclude: “ …both ozone and UV are ineffective in controlling infection within an individual aquarium because of the adhesive nature of C. irritans tomonts (Ma et al., 2017). Therefore, the focus on UV and ozone treatment should prevent live theronts flow into aquaculture ponds. Second, the tomonts are strongly resistant to UV or ozone than theronts, implying that recommended production doses cannot wholly kill tomonts….”

EDIT @Blindface It was my understanding that 1) the OP had fish with active infection and Thus - my comment that UV may not be that helpful in a 'treatment situation'.

 

[MnFish1]

I see this white line along the fins of my black clownfish. Not sure if this was there before or if it’s just discoloring? Is this safe

Those aren't the best pictures - can you post some under white light? To me the fins look 'off'

 

[newreef1]

Those aren't the best pictures - can you post some under white light? To me the fins look 'off'

Help! My blue tang looks very sick. This was the one with the most ICH spots but the spots are less. I added Cupramine yesterday and was swimming fine. I came home tonight and this is how he was. I did a 30% water change. Any other suggestions?

 

[Spieg]

Help! My blue tang looks very sick. This was the one with the most ICH spots but the spots are less. I added Cupramine yesterday and was swimming fine. I came home tonight and this is how he was. I did a 30% water change. Any other suggestions?

Did you get some PVC elbows for fish to use for shelter? When there is no place to hide, fish will sometimes sit like that in a corner of the tank... this can be stressful for the fish.

 

[newreef1]

Did you get some PVC elbows for fish to use for shelter? When there is no place to hide, fish will sometimes sit like that in a corner of the tank... this can be stressful for the fish.

Not yet, is there anything else I can use?

 

[Spieg]

Not yet, is there anything else I can use?

PVC works best because it wont absorb the copper in the water like rock would.

 

[newreef1]

Not yet, is there anything else I can use?

I had a couple old decorations from an older freshwater tank, I put those in, hopefully the tang will notice and use them

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I had a couple old decorations from an older freshwater tank, I put those in, hopefully the tang will notice and use them

I wonder if the original diagnosis is correct, or if there are multiple issues? In going back over this, I saw where you wrote that you lost multiple fish, but that they didn't have many spots on them. Then, although it isn't a super clear video, I don't see ich on this tang, and least not at the level that would cause the fish to lay on the bottom like that.

Other issues could be water quality, or velvet.

Edit: in re-reading this thread, I came across this text: "I also added some API salt after dissolving it in the water to help ease the stress" - can you explain that? I don't understand about adding salt to a marine aquarium to ease stress.....

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Help! My blue tang looks very sick. This was the one with the most ICH spots but the spots are less. I added Cupramine yesterday and was swimming fine. I came home tonight and this is how he was. I did a 30% water change. Any other suggestions?

I apologize - I cannot see the movie? I agree with Jay - I don't recall the whole thread - But - I thought that the number of fish you lost suggested velvet rather than CI. In any case - my other assumption was that the copper would treat it. @Jay Hemdal we had a mini discussion the other day - if a fish has velvet - would you recommend ramping up copper more quickly - and how quickly.

 

[MnFish1]

BTW - with regards to water quality, I forgot to answer your question about the line in the sand. It looks either like an area of anaerobic activity - or an area where merely there is sediment from when you put the sand in.

 

[Blindface]

What do you mean the parasite can find their way back? If a qt is done properly and the tank fallow, the parasite will die.

Your dealing with biology… it’s possible lol… unless your keeping tanks in different rooms and make sure there is 0 contact with water.. there are chances. And on top of that sometimes your dealing with a parasite that is less susceptible to medication. I’m just saying it’s not a 100 percent guarantee that your DT will never have parasites lol. I was more so going off of the possibility of cross contamination as people aren’t perfect and make mistakes lol

 

[newreef1]

I wonder if the original diagnosis is correct, or if there are multiple issues? In going back over this, I saw where you wrote that you lost multiple fish, but that they didn't have many spots on them. Then, although it isn't a super clear video, I don't see ich on this tang, and least not at the level that would cause the fish to lay on the bottom like that.

Other issues could be water quality, or velvet.

Edit: in re-reading this thread, I came across this text: "I also added some API salt after dissolving it in the water to help ease the stress" - can you explain that? I don't understand about adding salt to a marine aquarium to ease stress.....

Jay

I had changed the water before adding the fish and all the parameters and salinity, heat were fine. I didn’t see anything visibly on the fish that died, except one I saw white lips. Others just I could see breathing slowly and then they passed. Luckily my tang was breathing slowly last night, I did a water change and added some API salt. In the morning it was still sitting on the side but did swim a little and also ate. Right now I didn’t see him, he’s hiding in one of the decorations. If you look at the old pics, you can see the ICH spots on this tang, the video is a few days after admintering him ICH medication from petco, later changed him to bigger tank with clean water and administered Cupramine, day before yesterday. The LFS had given me this API salt, he said it helped with the fish stress, and helped them breathe better and helps with medication. I saw a Seachem stress medication and thought about purchasing that but it says you can’t use with Copper so..

This is the API salt, not for salinity purposes but more for the fish health

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/api-aquarium-salt-33-oz-474940?cm_mmc=PSH%7CGGL%7CCAL%7CSBU05%7CSH14%7C0%7CoZ4AgFePb8PMQF6cfeZNnh%7C58700007475749834%7CPRODUCT_GROUP%7C0%7C0%7Cpla-1457221079215%7C127865324094%7C15104991825&gbraid=0AAAAAD97F16PFGy4ZAIVkmsekeq76T7dE&gbraid=0AAAAAD97F16PFGy4ZAIVkmsekeq76T7dE&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4PKTBhD8ARIsAHChzRJiJQzWLmJhC065cGZvA9716jv6vkrx-u8XTvbQb7i9ztRD-zgVeS4aAt8PEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[newreef1]

I had changed the water before adding the fish and all the parameters and salinity, heat were fine. I didn’t see anything visibly on the fish that died, except one I saw white lips. Others just I could see breathing slowly and then they passed. Luckily my tang was breathing slowly last night, I did a water change and added some API salt. In the morning it was still sitting on the side but did swim a little and also ate. Right now I didn’t see him, he’s hiding in one of the decorations. If you look at the old pics, you can see the ICH spots on this tang, the video is a few days after admintering him ICH medication from petco, later changed him to bigger tank with clean water and administered Cupramine, day before yesterday. The LFS had given me this API salt, he said it helped with the fish stress, and helped them breathe better and helps with medication. I saw a Seachem stress medication and thought about purchasing that but it says you can’t use with Copper so..

This is the API salt, not for salinity purposes but more for the fish health

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/api-aquarium-salt-33-oz-474940?cm_mmc=PSH%7CGGL%7CCAL%7CSBU05%7CSH14%7C0%7CoZ4AgFePb8PMQF6cfeZNnh%7C58700007475749834%7CPRODUCT_GROUP%7C0%7C0%7Cpla-1457221079215%7C127865324094%7C15104991825&gbraid=0AAAAAD97F16PFGy4ZAIVkmsekeq76T7dE&gbraid=0AAAAAD97F16PFGy4ZAIVkmsekeq76T7dE&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4PKTBhD8ARIsAHChzRJiJQzWLmJhC065cGZvA9716jv6vkrx-u8XTvbQb7i9ztRD-zgVeS4aAt8PEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Should I stop using this, is there anything better to use for the stressed fish?

 

[newreef1]

I apologize - I cannot see the movie? I agree with Jay - I don't recall the whole thread - But - I thought that the number of fish you lost suggested velvet rather than CI. In any case - my other assumption was that the copper would treat it. @Jay Hemdal we had a mini discussion the other day - if a fish has velvet - would you recommend ramping up copper more quickly - and how quickly.

Doesn’t velvet also show white signs? Some fish had nothing on them, I’m wondering if there was something else or if they were sick from when I purchased them. Will the Cupramine also help with velvet? @jayhemdal I haven’t added another dose of the Cupramine as the tang seemed a bit weak, I was thinking of adding it tomorrow, after the first dose it was like the video so I did a 30% water change, should I dose again tomorrow will it help the fish or make it worse?

 

[Spare time]

Your dealing with biology… it’s possible lol… unless your keeping tanks in different rooms and make sure there is 0 contact with water.. there are chances. And on top of that sometimes your dealing with a parasite that is less susceptible to medication. I’m just saying it’s not a 100 percent guarantee that your DT will never have parasites lol. I was more so going off of the possibility of cross contamination as people aren’t perfect and make mistakes lol

That is the point of the fallow period too. It can't survive in the copper and if it made it into the display it would die from the lack of a host.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Doesn’t velvet also show white signs? Some fish had nothing on them, I’m wondering if there was something else or if they were sick from when I purchased them. Will the Cupramine also help with velvet? @jayhemdal I haven’t added another dose of the Cupramine as the tang seemed a bit weak, I was thinking of adding it tomorrow, after the first dose it was like the video so I did a 30% water change, should I dose again tomorrow will it help the fish or make it worse?

Hi, I was asleep when you posted last night.

The API salt is for freshwater fish only. It won’t hurt marine fish if dosed as directed, but as they are already in saltwater, it won’t help anything.

The primary symptom of velvet is rapid breathing. Copper will cure that, but to dose copper properly, you really need a good copper test kit or the Hanna copper checker.

I’m wondering now, with the few spots seen, and the fish not breathing fast, if there is some underlying water quality issue? This was my alternate diagnosis.

Jay

 

[newreef1]

Hi, I was asleep when you posted last night.

The API salt is for freshwater fish only. It won’t hurt marine fish if dosed as directed, but as they are already in saltwater, it won’t help anything.

The primary symptom of velvet is rapid breathing. Copper will cure that, but to dose copper properly, you really need a good copper test kit or the Hanna copper checker.

I’m wondering now, with the few spots seen, and the fish not breathing fast, if there is some underlying water quality issue? This was my alternate diagnosis.

Jay

Thank you so much for responding and all your help, my test kit is coming in today. I will check and then redose the copper. The tang is doing better now. I will keep in quarantine for the entire treatment time, is there anything else you recommend I should treat them with prior to moving them to the DT, it looks like the API all cure powder is probably not the best either. Also if I’m discarding all the Qt water do I need to run it with carbon to remove it from the water? Will the fish still have it in their body if I transfer to DT directly without using carbon to remove the copper?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No, you do not need to remove copper from water that you are disposing of. The amount of copper on a fish that you move to your display is also not a factor, just don’t dump any quarantine water into your display. First, you need to get this issue under control. Then, I would hold the fish for at least 14 days with no treatment before moving them.
Jay