ich and starvation

[A.Percula]

Hello All!

I would like to get some advise on some issues with the fish that I have. So, 3 weeks ago I bought 3 anthias (2 males and 1 female). This is in addition to 2 small ocellaris and 2 firefish (very small fish) that I have in my 40G tank. The two females have not eaten since I bought them. They were always hiding. The male did eat, but he completely stopped eating after showing some signs of ich. He has been scratching with rocks and sand so aggressively that he broke one of his lateral fins in half. I still dont know what the disease is, I have not seen any white/black spots. It is just itch, and they seem to have lost their bright colors.

I tried 7 different options of frozen food, but none of them worked for them. The smallest female died two days ago so I had to so something (she had a sore or something on her body) and was very weak. I bought all the materials and prepared a hospital tank with the necessary equipment (heater, small filter with sponge (not carbon), left water circulating for 24h prior to introduction etc. My plan is to dose Prazipro for two weeks (6 days after first dosage + 25% WC), then after second dosage, a big WC and start using Cupramine. I just started the treatment yesterday and they look way better! Less stress and I hope they get back to eating.

I will need your assistance with Seachem Cupramine. I am a bit nervous on how to ramp up levels, how to do WC while maintaining the level of medication (I bought the test kit) and how to keep ammonia levels down to zero without compromising my DT. How do I return the fish after 435 treatment without introducing copper into DT?

Thank you in advance!

 

[deedubz]

Did you seed your qt with some bottled bacteria? Biospira, Dr Tim's, etc. is great for a bacteria boost.

Can you by chance get any more pics? Any/all fish(especially that deceased female if you have one) that you can so we can better assist you.

 

[Big G]

How big is your hospital tank? Always a good idea to actually measure the volume - a 10 gal tank is seldom actually 10 gal. This knowledge helps when dosing, especially for copper dosing.
So if I'm following you correctly, you started dosing Prazipro yesterday? So without signs of spots and yet itching they probably have flukes.

 

[deedubz]

As far as food, you can try live black worms or ROE. Anthias are planktivores and prefer small foods they can pick from water column. Here's a bottle I picked up from my lfs

 

[Big G]

The Anthia in the picture looks to have a bacterial infection (the whitish sore area on its side). Probably secondary to the fluke infestation. Here's Humblefish's treatment advisory. Suggest you use either Kanaplex or Furan2 to treat the bacterial infection. Treat for 10 days. Antibiotics are slow acting in fish.

What to do for Worms (flukes, turbellarians) + Bacterial Infection - You can dose Prazipro in conjunction with most antibiotics (but only in a QT). However, Prazipro will sometimes interact negatively with other medications due to the Oxybispropanol it contains. The main thing you'll want to watch out for is a bacterial bloom (very cloudy water). A severe bacterial bloom can starve all oxygen out of the water and cause your fish to die due to asphyxiation. Adding an air stone or pointing a powerhead towards the surface will sometimes counteract this by providing more available oxygen. However, it is always prudent to keep freshly mixed saltwater on hand to perform a large water change if needed. DO NOT add more medication(s) to the water until after it has completely cleared.

 

[A.Percula]

Thank you all for your responses! I really appreciate it!

BigG,

So my qt is 10G and I put some fritzyme turbo boost 900, which has worked very well for me. I also took a filter sock that I had in my DT and put it in the qt (i thought it would bring some bacteria as well). I have an airstone on to help with the oxigen. Unfortunately, the female in the previous picture did not make it into the qt.

I will get more and better pics once I get home, but I attached one I took yesterday. I did start the treatment yesterday and so far so good. I did not sleep lol.

The male which was scratching has his “skin” very pale and with laverations (see picture). He was doing so well and all the sudden he stops esting and hiding in the rocks all day long!


Dwwataz,

I habe fish eggs, not the same brand and they just ignore it. I have tried brine shrimp, baby brine shrimp, cyclops, mysis shrimps, rotifers, and plankton. Ill see if I can find that one! Thanks

 

[Big G]

Yeah, your Anthia has a bacterial infection. Consider dosing with antibiotics listed above. Also consider adding a powerhead aimed up at the surface. It creates a significant O2 exchange that is badly needed when mixing Prazipro and antibiotics.

 

[A.Percula]

Well. Let me see how to find a new powerhead and the medication. Ill continue with prazipro in the meantime.

Also, I wanted to mention that one of the firefish seems agitated and weak. A long white string is comong out of his body (poop) and other fish are picking on that.

The male anthias also has the same long whiteish string coming out of his body (see pic). Are they parasites???

 

[Big G]

Yep. Those white stringy poops are signs of internal parasites (worms). The Prazipro will help with that, but the addition of Metroplex/Metro MS will take care of any internal parasites that the prazi doesn't. An alternative is to skip Prazipro & Metro all together and dose API General Cure. It contains both Metro and a lower but effective dose of praziquantel. Same dosage schedule as Prazipro. I like GC. The lower dose of praziquantel is easier on praziquantel sensitive fish, yet gets the job done.

 

[A.Percula]

Great. So I will complete at least 6 days with Prazipro, then WC, carbon for 1 day and hopefully I can use API GC for the next 10 days. I just gotta find a way to increase oxigen.

I still have to use Copper, right? To make sure I treat everything. After this I guess I will not buy more fish!

 

[Big G]

Great. So I will complete at least 6 days with Prazipro, then WC, carbon for 1 day and hopefully I can use API GC for the next 10 days. I just gotta find a way to increase oxigen.

I still have to use Copper, right? To make sure I treat everything. After this I guess I will not buy more fish!

Welcome to R2R by the way
I wouldn't wait, if possible get the metro ms or metroplex (follow directions on the package) in with the already dosed prazipro if you can rapidly get ahold of a metro product. After 5-7 days, Just do the 25% water change to remove debris, expelled worms, etc. Then dose again. No need to run carbon before the next dose of praziquantel/metro products.

As for the copper, yep. That's if you want to treat prophylactically for Ich/velvet. The praziquantel & metro takes care of flukes, Brook, Uronema.

 

[A.Percula]

Welcome to R2R by the way
I wouldn't wait, if possible get the metro ms or metroplex (follow directions on the package) in with the already dosed prazipro if you can rapidly get ahold of a metro product. After 5-7 days, Just do the 25% water change to remove debris, expelled worms, etc. Then dose again. No need to run carbon before the next dose of praziquantel/metro products.

As for the copper, yep. That's if you want to treat prophylactically for Ich/velvet. The praziquantel & metro takes care of flukes, Brook, Uronema.

Thank you Big G. This is a very friendly place. I was hesitant to post because people in the hobby often blames or make you feel worse. Not here!

Thanks. Ill try to get the medicine tomorrow. Also, hope to get some live black worms to feed the anthias. So many things going on and hoping that ammonia stays at zero for some time.

 

[Big G]

You are welcome. Best of luck with your fish. I've got some Anthias and Firefish in my own tank. Like them a lot.

 

[deedubz]

Thank you Big G. This is a very friendly place. I was hesitant to post because people in the hobby often blames or make you feel worse. Not here!

Definitely is.. I've been on various forums for various hobbies throughout the years. I can honestly say that every one of them left a bad taste in my mouth. I was hesitant to join here as well because of similar attitudes towards new members on all those forums. Not here... This place is phenomenal. Genuinely friendly people looking out for each other. Great place to call home!

Big G gave you some great advice. Good luck with your fish. Don't hesitate to ask any additional questions you may have

 

[A.Percula]

One good news! The female anthias ATE for the first time in several weeks!! I brought her LIVE brine shrimp... I guess it's bad for me cause that food is hard to find! The male also started to eat!

I was unable to find the API GC though.

 

[Big G]

One good news! The female anthias ATE for the first time in several weeks!! I brought her LIVE brine shrimp... I guess it's bad for me cause that food is hard to find! The male also started to eat!

I was unable to find the API GC though.

Be sneaky. Start mixing in a bit of frozen brine shrimp with the live.

 

[A.Percula]

will do! Can I put the rest in the DT in a small cage I bought? I hope they remain alive for a few more days.

 

[Big G]

will do! Can I put the rest in the DT in a small cage I bought? I hope they remain alive for a few more days.

You can raise your own brine shrimp. It's pretty easy. Lots of kits available.

 

[A.Percula]

You can raise your own brine shrimp. It's pretty easy. Lots of kits available.

Yes. oh Lord! it keeps adding ($$$) lol. I ordered some brine shrimp eggs and hope to start hatching them by the end of the week. I also ordered API GC, but wont get it until Friday, so here's my plan... Complete this first phase with Prazipro, then the second phase (after 6 days with Prazipro) I will do a 25% WC and then start with API for 10 days. Then I will start Cupramine.

Does that sound good?

I added new pics! They are looking good! Except one firefish, which has been weak and breathing heavely for the past 2 days. I boght him online, so I guess he suffered during shipment.

Added some live bacteria and ammonia is still zero, but I am ready to perform a WC in case of an emergency.

PS. I could not resist and bought 5 very small chromies. I said to myself that I will NOT buy any more fish after I am done with the 43ish day treatment so I better get them now. They are now in the QT tank.

 

[Big G]

Sounds like a good plan. You could consider giving the Firefish a bath in methylene blue. It really helps a lot for fish that have experienced some ammonia burn during shipping through helping the fish oxygenate their blood. Good all around med to keep handy that's been in the hobby for years.
Keep an close eye on those Chromis. They have very fast metabolisms and are prone to Uronema: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/
The Metro in the General Cure will help treating the Chromis prophylactically to help avoid Uronema.

Also watch those Anthias using Cupramine. Instead of the two big doses listed on the label of the bottle. Suggest you break it down to smaller daily doses until you reach therapeutic level. I like to dose AM & PM. Small but steady doses over 5-7 days as you creep up to the therapeutic level of 0.50 ppm for Cupramine. That being said, I'd use a chelated copper like Copper Power on Anthias if possible instead of Cupramine. Some wrasses just don't do well with Ionic coppers like Cupramine.

 

[A.Percula]

I will try to expedite an order of methylene blue. I hope he hangs in there for 24h. Can you please tell me more about the baths? How frequent? For how long?