Ich and Velvet and not improving

[hrdneglcry]

My tank got ich and velvet both. I am treating with Ich X Marine. This is day four and it had not cleared up. I did a 90 gallon water change prior to the treatment. The tank is a 180. It seems a little has cleared But the Blue Jaw Trigger does not appear to have improved. I contacted Hikari and was told Marine version is a little leas strong the standard Ich X due to corals. i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment.

 

[TBSB2019]

To get rid of it you have to get copper levels high enough to kill it which will kill everything but your fish. That treatment takes about 30 days. If you do this in your display, it will soak into the rockwork. You should really put the fish in a separate tank and let your display go fishless. There are numerous threads that go into really good detail on this. I know it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Lavey29]

My tank got ich and velvet both. I am treating with Ich X Marine. This is day four and it had not cleared up. I did a 90 gallon water change prior to the treatment. The tank is a 180. It seems a little has cleared But the Blue Jaw Trigger does not appear to have improved. I contacted Hikari and was told Marine version is a little leas strong the standard Ich X due to corals. i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment.

This is going to do nothing to rid the tank of ich and or velvet.

 

[hrdneglcry]

I have cured ich before with ich x. It was not hard. i will hook up my diatom filter which acutally filters ich right out of the water column.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My tank got ich and velvet both. I am treating with Ich X Marine. This is day four and it had not cleared up. I did a 90 gallon water change prior to the treatment. The tank is a 180. It seems a little has cleared But the Blue Jaw Trigger does not appear to have improved. I contacted Hikari and was told Marine version is a little leas strong the standard Ich X due to corals. i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment.

Ich-X is a tonic and is basically useless even with freshwater application. Your best bet will be either coppersafe (recommended) or hyposalinity which some fish do not endure well.

 

[Lavey29]

I have cured ich before with ich x. It was not hard. i will hook up my diatom filter which acutally filters ich right out of the water column.

You don't cure it. You manage it. Ich x is useless in salt water. Ich is in every tank in my opinion but if fish are healthy and strong with no stress then the ich is very manageable. If a stressful situation occurs the the ich can come back because fish immune systems get compromised.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have cured ich before with ich x. It was not hard. i will hook up my diatom filter which acutally filters ich right out of the water column.

im sorry but owning a vortex diatom unit, it polishes water and does not remove protozoans and Ich-X likely did not stop the ich but when you thought they were gone likely dropped off and reproduced and came back to the hose fish in numbers.
Ich -X is a concentrated version of Malachite green (a freshwater remedy) and trace of formalin that is Not effective in marine setting

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My tank got ich and velvet both. I am treating with Ich X Marine. This is day four and it had not cleared up. I did a 90 gallon water change prior to the treatment. The tank is a 180. It seems a little has cleared But the Blue Jaw Trigger does not appear to have improved. I contacted Hikari and was told Marine version is a little leas strong the standard Ich X due to corals. i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment.

Ich-X is malachite green and formalin. Despite its marketing it does not work well in marine systems. Ich-X marine is just formalin. That makes it safer for invertebrates, but is even less effective against protozoans when dosed at low levels.

The best way to treat ich or velvet is Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm in a treatment tank.

 

[hrdneglcry]

Ich-X is malachite green and formalin. Despite its marketing it does not work well in marine systems. Ich-X marine is just formalin. That makes it safer for invertebrates, but is even less effective against protozoans when dosed at low levels.

The best way to treat ich or velvet is Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm in a treatment tank.

It is clearing up on my Sailfin. And I swear
I've cleared iit in my 75 but I think I used regular. I've never used copper but have used Ich x and Rally Pro for velvet. I also use a diatom filter since I have one which is useful against ich.

 

[Largeangels]

A vortex diatom unit is the same as a UV sterilizer. It can only capture/kill what flows through it. You are not going to get 100% of what floats around going through either one before they infect another fish and continue the process.

Listen to Jay. Copper at 2.25 in seperate treatment tank. He knows more than any of us on fish disease and treatment.

 

[exnisstech]

It is clearing up on my Sailfin. And I swear
I've cleared in in my 75 but I think I used regular. I've nwver used copper but have used Ich x and Rally Pro for velvet. I also use a diatom filter since I have one which is useful against ich.

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

 

[littlefoxx]

It is clearing up on my Sailfin. And I swear
I've cleared iit in my 75 but I think I used regular. I've never used copper but have used Ich x and Rally Pro for velvet. I also use a diatom filter since I have one which is useful against ich.

You probably dont have velvet then, none of those are effective against velvet and it kills super super fast. Just not sure why youre arguing with two of the best fish medics on the form when they tell you those dont work for killing either of those two things inside a tank.

 

[Fish Fan]

I'm not an expert with fish parasites, but you have some of our resident experts here trying to help you; I would listen to their advice. I would think that's why you posted here, right?

Your diatom filter may indeed trap some of the Ich thermonts, but it almost certainly wont get them all. They are not all free swimming in the water, some (most) will be in the rock and sand.

Your Ich X Marine may reduce some of the Ich, but it almost certainly isn't eradicating them all.

Ich can and will remain in your rocks and sand in your display tank, even if you're not seeing an outbreak on the fish.

Best practice is to remove the fish from your display tank and treat them with a copper based medication in a bare QT tank, and to leave your display tank fallow (fishless) for a period of time as to allow the Ich parasites to "starve out" without a fish host to complete their lifecycle.

All other treatments are like a Band Aid. Sure, you're going to reduce the Ich, and you may see improvements, but you're not eradicating the problem, and as soon as there's an opportunity (like when fish are stressed) your Ich will come right back.

Best of luck with your tank and your Ich!

 

[MnFish1]

It is clearing up on my Sailfin. And I swear
I've cleared iit in my 75 but I think I used regular. I've never used copper but have used Ich x and Rally Pro for velvet. I also use a diatom filter since I have one which is useful against ich.

it's possible that ich can come and go - however, I'd be interested to hear what diatom filter you're using thats 'useful against ich'. Velvet does not tend to come and go - and I'm not at all sure you have velvet in your tank. I don't want to debate what you're saying - because I believe your experience is factual. BUT - I would not recommend that others follow your protocol. As to your question: ". i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment."

I would follow the recommendations of the makers of the product you purchased. I'm curious is there a reason you're double-checking their recommendations here?

 

[hrdneglcry]

it's possible that ich can come and go - however, I'd be interested to hear what diatom filter you're using thats 'useful against ich'. Velvet does not tend to come and go - and I'm not at all sure you have velvet in your tank. I don't want to debate what you're saying - because I believe your experience is factual. BUT - I would not recommend that others follow your protocol. As to your question: ". i wondered if I were to use the standard Ich X (nor marine) if it would kill corals or my crabs. I removed all of the carbon prior to the treatment."

I would follow the recommendations of the makers of the product you purchased. I'm curious is there a reason you're double-checking their recommendations here?

Velvet is smaller than Ich supposedly. So that is why I say Velvet and Ich. May all be Ich. Definitely there are large white spots that is Ich. Not a lot of people have experience with Diatom filters. They are not really made anymore for this hobby. Diatoms are smaller than Ich. They filter anything large than them out of the water column. I used them when I added crushed coral to a new tank. I did not even rinse it. They make the wanter crustal clear. I only knew of two. The whisper Diatomagic and Vortex. I can only say I've cured ich in this manner. And currently I only have gsp which is suffering fron some bad advice I took treating a blockage in a fish. When I treated before in the 75 with regular I think I took the crabs out.

Also I turned off the skimmer per the directions. I had it on for the first four treatments.

 

[Fish Fan]

Not a lot of people have experience with Diatom filters. They are not really made anymore for this hobby.

That second line should tell you something ;-)

I am plenty old enough to remember diatom filters on aquaria, and @vetteguy53081 mentioned he personally runs one. Respectfully, you're missing the point about the Ich not really being in the water columb. Ich lives in and on your rocks and sand primarily. Filtering just some of them out with any kind of mechanical filtration is not solving your problem.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Velvet is smaller than Ich supposedly. So that is why I say Velvet and Ich. May all be Ich. Definitely there are large white spots that is Ich. Not a lot of people have experience with Diatom filters. They are not really made anymore for this hobby. Diatoms are smaller than Ich. They filter anything large than them out of the water column. I used them when I added crushed coral to a new tank. I did not even rinse it. They make the wanter crustal clear. I only knew of two. The whisper Diatomagic and Vortex. I can only say I've cured ich in this manner. And currently I only have gsp which is suffering fron some bad advice I took treating a blockage in a fish. When I treated before in the 75 with regular I think I took the crabs out.

Also I turned off the skimmer per the directions. I had it on for the first four treatments.

This is information and not a debate as I get what you are trying to express and experience you've had. Ich is a protozoan and velvet is a flagellate. Velvet is finer yes and also spreads quickly and the diatom unit is fantastic in entrapping very small micron particles however will allow objects to pass through the unit as the powder begins to cake. It has never been regarded as method of treatment for parasites and even algae issues but rather a water polisher, however very effective with bacterial blooms

 

[hrdneglcry]

That second line should tell you something ;-)

I am plenty old enough to remember diatom filters on aquaria, and @vetteguy53081 mentioned he personally runs one. Respectfully, you're missing the point about the Ich not really being in the water columb. Ich lives in and on your rocks and sand primarily. Filtering just some of them out with any kind of mechanical filtration is not solving your problem.

It clears. Why would it not be in the column? The fish are not on the rocks and sand. Hiw are they getting it if its not in the column? They advertise the filter as filtering ich. Anyway its clearing up now. I use the filter. Its capable of catching the ich. Can't aee obviously if it is.

 

[jamesb07]

It clears. Why would it not be in the column? The fish are not on the rocks and sand. Hiw are they getting it if its not in the column? They advertise the filter as filtering ich. Anyway its clearing up now. I use the filter. Its capable of catching the ich. Can't aee obviously if it is.

All I can say is good luck. Definitely should’ve used copper method IMO

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

It clears. Why would it not be in the column? The fish are not on the rocks and sand. Hiw are they getting it if its not in the column? They advertise the filter as filtering ich. Anyway its clearing up now. I use the filter. Its capable of catching the ich. Can't aee obviously if it is.

I’ve used diatom filters since the early 1970’s - they just don’t cure active ich infections. There is the dwell time issue, plus blow by, plus the fact that the ich theronts emerge from the cysts in the early morning and attach to the fish at the bottom of the tank - never going through the filter.