Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)

jduck · Feb 11, 2016

Ryengoth said:
Actually you can buy just chloroquine phosphate powder from them: http://www.lireefs.com/product-category/meds/
I have no idea if you have to discuss dosing or not, but my guess is they'll want to know all about your tank before they'll sell it, just like their CP treated food "Ich Be Gone".

Would you trust anyone that sells a reef safe ich treatment????

Ryengoth · Feb 11, 2016

jduck said:
Would you trust anyone that sells a reef safe ich treatment????

Yes, until it burns me. I have no reason to not trust it until I see it fail myself.

RMAS0934 · Feb 15, 2016

@Humblefish you mentioned wanting to try copper power in another post. I know that this a chelated form of copper unlike cupramine (ionic). My question is, is there a better form of copper to use for fish without scales, or smooth fish such as some puffers or eels? I plan on using ttm, but I want to learn as much as possible as I am new to this. If it is not wise to use copper at all on these smooth fish, and you can't use ttm, what would be your suggestion for new fish purchases before adding to the DT? Thank you in advance!

Tommy's Reef · Feb 15, 2016

How to treat an ich well you scratch it

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2016

RMAS0934 said:
@Humblefish you mentioned wanting to try copper power in another post. I know that this a chelated form of copper unlike cupramine (ionic). My question is, is there a better form of copper to use for fish without scales, or smooth fish such as some puffers or eels? I plan on using ttm, but I want to learn as much as possible as I am new to this. If it is not wise to use copper at all on these smooth fish, and you can't use ttm, what would be your suggestion for new fish purchases before adding to the DT? Thank you in advance!

It seems the rules change depending upon which type of copper you use. With ionic copper (Cupramine) it's always been considered a no-no to use it on scaleless fish. However, just yesterday I met a LFS employee (who is also an old salt like me), and he told me how they use copper on puffers, eels, etc. at the store with no issues. Guess which copper they use? Coppersafe, another brand of chelated copper.

Of course, the optimal chemical to use to treat external parasites on scaleless fish is Chloroquine phosphate (works great on fish with scales too

). And this is what I use. Of course, this is nothing new. Public aquariums and shark/rays enthusiasts have been using Chloroquine since the 1970s.

RMAS0934 · Feb 15, 2016

Thanks so much! I'm assuming you get this form your vet? I am a little concerned as I wouldn't thing my local vet deals with much saltwater due to where i live, but that may not matter. Do you just call your vet office or do you make an apt. to go in and speak with him/her?

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2016

RMAS0934 said:
Thanks so much! I'm assuming you get this form your vet? I am a little concerned as I wouldn't thing my local vet deals with much saltwater due to where i live, but that may not matter. Do you just call your vet office or do you make an apt. to go in and speak with him/her?

It's best to visit your vet in person and explain why you need it. Sometimes printing out the articles below can help convince your vet of the usefulness of CP and to write a prescription for it. But some vets won't budge because they are afraid to write a Rx for a "FDA regulated" drug.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=41

reynaldoramon · Feb 15, 2016

So thinking I'm stopping cupramine tonight. Tomini tang hasn't eaten in 3 days. Actually almost 4 days. Warming water now in a 5 gallon bucket, anf going to start TTM. Should be in there by tonight. Then I'll clean qt tomorrow and use it for next transfer. But just to be clear..my tang definitely has ich. TTM treats it? It's not just prophylactic is it?

RMAS0934 · Feb 15, 2016

What are your thoughts on this product, if any, and also it's ability to treat the smoother fish?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1MY3I1N8E5O8

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2016

@reynaldoramon TTM treats ich yes, but NO OTHER DISEASES. So you must be sure it is ich, and not velvet, you are dealing with here.

@RMAS0934 NLS Ick-Shield contains CP sourced from China, so it's purity is dubious.

reynaldoramon · Feb 15, 2016

I like the word dubious.

RMAS0934 · Feb 15, 2016

Thanks for all your help, Humble Fish!

reynaldoramon · Feb 15, 2016

@Humblefish pretty sure it's ich. Spots. Was actually acting fine for the last month in my DT...white spots and all. Took it slow and raised to therapeutic over 4 days. The final day, when I got it to .5 is the day he stopped eating. Figure if it were velvet, it would of shown during the month he was in the tank.

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2016

reynaldoramon said:
@Humblefish pretty sure it's ich. Spots. Was actually acting fine for the last month in my DT...white spots and all. Took it slow and raised to therapeutic over 4 days. The final day, when I got it to .5 is the day he stopped eating. Figure if it were velvet, it would of shown during the month he was in the tank.

He would probably be dead by now if it was velvet, so you are pretty safe assuming it is ich.

reynaldoramon · Feb 17, 2016

@Humblefish Ugh...and like that my tang died. Pretty sure that ich wounds turned into bacterial infection. I was treating with the cocktail you recommended. Kanaplex, metro, and Furan 2. But with the appetite suppression, I'm sure his immune system was garbage. Maybe I should of taken him out of copper sooner.

reynaldoramon · Feb 17, 2016

Any how, I'll continue to treat the clowns and fire fish. Due for the 1st transfer tomorrow.

Humblefish · Feb 17, 2016

@reynaldoramon Sorry to hear that.

reynaldoramon · Feb 17, 2016

With TTM, what are your thoughts with cleaning powerhead and heater in vinegar and sharing between qt environments. Ok? That is one reason I went with cupramine initially. The cost (salt, double equipment)ease of care. Will a 5 minute vinegar or bleach soak between QT equipment sufficient? Or should I really invest in more equipment?

Humblefish · Feb 17, 2016

Even though combining TTM with antibiotics did not work for the above poster, I still recommend doing it when treating for ich plus a bacterial infection for the following reasons:

When a fish stops eating in QT, you are in trouble. You can try lowering the Cu level until the fish resumes eating, but then he may stop again once Cu is back at therapeutic levels. Of course, adding antibiotics only compounds the problem of appetite suppression.

If you are treating ich and encounter repeated appetite suppression whilst using copper, I highly recommend TTM instead: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

This method treats ich in a non-chemical environment, and provides more flexibility for treating with Prazipro (for worms) or antibiotics (for infections) as you do not have to worry about the resulting interaction with copper.