Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Humblefish · Jan 25, 2015

Paul B said:
Yes, but you have to run tem very sow. 150GPH down each tube, no faster and use gravel, no sand

Florida crushed coral? Or something else? I would probably setup a small tank today, except I don't always have access to live blackworms. And wife won't let me grow my own. :sad:

TJ's Reef · Jan 25, 2015

Definitely a nice write-up Humblefish, though one more option or variation of eradication left out. From several articles/papers I have read over the years a vast majority of MI species will inbreed themselves into extinction without new/added genetic material within a 10-12 month time frame. So by refraining from adding anything that could/would carry over MI in any of its forms into the DT for a period of a year you would essentially be Ich free as well even if there was MI present initially.

I am and have been a proponent of Full QT with Treatment ( Cupramine or Hypo-Salinity) for decades myself though like many have made mistakes or judgement calls that went bad. Currently I have MI in somewhat of a dormant stage as had a small outbreak with introduction of a small Hepatus Tang a month or so back. Like Paul B my system is quite established with well fed and healthy Fish so that the outbreak though a bit frightening was very short lived and with no losses.

Cheers, Todd

Paul B · Jan 25, 2015

Florida crushed coral? Or something else? I would probably setup a small tank today, except I don't always have access to live blackworms.

I don't know what Florida crushed coral looks like. I use dolomite and it looks like this. Remember, this gravel is almost 50 years old so there are sea urchin spines, pieces of asphalt, broken bottles and probably parts from an Oldsmobile

ETORRES477 · Jan 25, 2015

Interesting article. I had an ich outbreak about a year ago on my latest build, got nervous and was getting ready to move my fish into a QT treat them with copper, and go fallow for about 2.5 months. Lucky for me I got advice on here emphasizing the nutritional aspect and also came across Paul's post on live feeding. My tank has never looked better, did not lose a single fish and have not had an issue since. May not work for everyone but the no QT/high quality food & water method works for me. With respect to your points on ich management I will say all of the reference points you included I consider a must for good husbandry in general, not only ich management. The only exception would be the first point which (sterilizer) I consider an optional method. The sterilizer will clear your tank of free floating ich, but I mostly employ mine for water clarity benefits. Thanks for sharing.

Humblefish · Jan 25, 2015

TJ's Reef said:
Definitely a nice write-up Humblefish, though one more option or variation of eradication left out. From several articles/papers I have read over the years a vast majority of MI species will inbreed themselves into extinction without new/added genetic material within a 10-12 month time frame. So by refraining from adding anything that could/would carry over MI in any of its forms into the DT for a period of a year you would essentially be Ich free as well even if there was MI present initially.

I've read this as well. However, since most (but not all) who practice ich management don't QT then it's likely another fish with ich will be introduced into their DT; and probably with a different strain of ich. That diversifies the gene pool and takes care of the inbreeding problem. Or at the very least, restarts the 10-12 month clock.

Humblefish · Jan 25, 2015

Paul B said:
I don't know what Florida crushed coral looks like. I use dolomite and it looks like this. Remember, this gravel is almost 50 years old so there are sea urchin spines, pieces of asphalt, broken bottles and probably parts from an Oldsmobile

It's been so long since I've used anything other than sand, that I actually forgot about dolomite. :xd:

I'm gonna need some serious consultation from you when it comes time to setup this tank.

Hellsinki · Feb 6, 2015

absolutely fantastic information which would have helped me save a fish about a month ago... I'm in the ich management phase and it sucks.

Paul B · Mar 4, 2015

This may go along with this thread. Over a week ago I aquired these two shrimpfish (yes, I know, very cool) In a couple of days, one became covered in spots, stopped eating and the next day he was dead. As always, I didn't quarantine them. If I did, I probably could have saved that shrimpfish. But the other one is still fine and I replaced the dead one. There is no sign of any spots on anything and i know there won't be as I have been doing this a long time and there has not been a spot on anything in probably 30 years, I don't remember. I don't want to elaborate to much but to me, an immune fish is much healthier than a segregated fish. Just my opinion of course. I also realize almost all Noobs should quarantine even if they think their fish are healthy. If their diet consists of flakes, pellets and brine shrimp, they are not healthy. If they are not spawning or making spawning jestures, they are not healthy. Not at all. "All' Healthy fish spawn "in the sea". Some won't spawn in a tank just because the conditions are not right for them, but they still should be in spawning condition. Some fish like clowns can eat cardboard and spawn, but most fish need better food and live food is the best with whole frozen foods next. I know what a lot of people are thinking. This guy doesn't know a fish from a Duck Billed Platypus. Of course some of my fish are older than those people but those people right now are thinking that they only feed "Premium" flakes and pellets because they are expensive. Good luck with that, and make shure to quarantine.

the fish guy · Mar 6, 2015

ich

Put em in a qt with a good uv 1/2 dose copper. daily 15 sec freshwater dip for 4 days. Remove copper ( canister filter with charcoal ie. Magnum, fluval etc ) then 25% water change in qt weekly for 30 to 45 days treat one last time with half dose copper for a day then back in the dt. Good luck some may not agree but I know it work's although I do read books my knowledge comes from 22 year's actual work in the field maintaining customers tanks.and trial and error not by what I have read.give it a try.

Humblefish · Mar 6, 2015

the fish guy said:
Put em in a qt with a good uv 1/2 dose copper.

Are you dosing chelated copper (i.e Coppersafe) or ionic copper (i.e. Cupramine)? Below is a quote taken directly from Seachem's FAQ:

Cupramine is a ionic copper bond to an amine. Being bonded like this makes the ionic copper safe at higher levels. UV light breaks this bond. This releases ionic copper at a dangerous level. This is why we recommend to turn off your UV sterilizers.

the fish guy · Mar 7, 2015

1/2 dose!!!!!

the fish guy said:
Put em in a qt with a good uv 1/2 dose copper. daily 15 sec freshwater dip for 4 days. Remove copper ( canister filter with charcoal ie. Magnum, fluval etc ) then 25% water change in qt weekly for 30 to 45 days treat one last time with half dose copper for a day then back in the dt. Good luck some may not agree but I know it work's although I do read books my knowledge comes from 22 year's actual work in the field maintaining customers tanks.and trial and error not by what I have read.give it a try.

1/2 dose !!!!!

saltyhog · Mar 7, 2015

Great write up Humblefish. TT is my QT protocol of choice.

Paul, we humans do produce slime.....we just call it mucous or snot or luggies.

Paul B · Mar 7, 2015

Paul, we humans do produce slime.....we just call it mucous or snot or luggies.

True but I am not sure how much Lugers protect us against parasites. It will protect us from getting dates

reefwiser · Mar 7, 2015

Humans also shed their skin cells 30,000 and 40,000 of them fall off every hour. Well over 1 million in 24 hours.
How many skin cells do you shed every day? - HowStuffWorks

Paul B · Mar 7, 2015

Yes we do,
but for a different reason fish
shed slime.

Humblefish · Mar 7, 2015

reefwiser said:
Humans also shed their skin cells 30,000 and 40,000 of them fall off every hour. Well over 1 million in 24 hours.
How many skin cells do you shed every day? - HowStuffWorks

Is that why my mattress weighs so much now? :wink:

buzz225 · Mar 10, 2015

Please help what's going on with my diamond goby

Paul B · Mar 10, 2015

That is not ich, that is a bacterial infection

Humblefish · Mar 10, 2015

buzz225 I responded to your thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-discussion/194431-diamond-goby-problem-2.html#post2229825

Humblefish said:
Looks like his tail has literally been chopped/bitten off. Infection is possible, but for now I would just soak his food in vitamin supplements (Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem.) If the base of his tail starts to turn red or otherwise discolored, then you will need to QT and treat with antibiotics.