Ich help please

[tritonpower]

I assume my tomini tang has ich. 3 spots on L fin and 1 on rear tail. R side is clear. See pics below. He was in copper at LFS for 1 month prior to my tank (90 gallon redsea 425XL). In my tank for 2 weeks. Not eating great the 1st week or so, now eating well the last few days. I just noticed it today, not sure how long it's been there. Yellow tang, melanarus wrasse, clowns, pajama cardinals, chalk bass, lawnmower blenny, and watchman goby all clear with no spots. He is acting normal and not flashing or scratching.

I am feeding frozen mysis, spectrum therA pellets, and seaweed extreme pellets. The tomini is eating all 3. Also a nori sheet every couple days. He eats this too.

Should I just give it a couple days and see how he does? I have a small tank I could use for quarantine. I'm not sure if the stress of catching him and moving him may cause more issues.

I have an aqua 25 watt UV. I currently have all my return pump going through the UV. The pump is a sicce syncra SDC 7.0 800-1900 GPH. I have it less than 1/2 power and so around 1200 GPH thru the UV which is recommended for algae, etc. 400-480 GPH is recommended for fish disease. My plumbing is pictured below. I could open my bypass valve some and close the valve to the UV some. That should theoretically get close to the 400-500 GPH range. Would that help?

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Maks Reef]

If he's eating better and your other fish are not showing signs of infection, I would leave him be and continue to feed. You are right unassuming that a move would stress him out. If you can, get some vitamins (Selcon Fish Supplement) to add to the food and help give the immune system a little boost. The healthier the fish the better the slime coat, the better slime coat the better it functions at defending against critters.

Id follow your gut and throttle your UV to get the right benefits out of it. If you are experiencing an introduction of a parasite or outbreak of something existing, it will help slow down the reproduction and make it more manageable for all of your fish.

Hope it turns out well

 

[nano_ryan]

I have a whole ton of forums of me going through ich this year. And it’s been frustrating but i’ve bypassed the ich and let me tell you how you can too. I don’t know how many fish you have but if its just the tang, you should be fine with a 20g long qt tank. If more then that, pick up a 55g tank which will be suitable for housing your fish for a few months. Quarantining your fish and letting the DT sit fallow for A minimum of 3 months is very important. You need to make a qt tank now or the longer you wait, the worse/longer you have to wait for the ich to die off in the DT. Only copper based medications can actually kill the ich off the fish in the qt. Order some copper power and a hanna copper checker. Make sure to order extra reagents because they will run out fast. Put a HOB filter or two and a heater with a power head and you should be fine. Also take some of your bio media from your dt and set it into your qt. Ammonia and nitrites WILL spike in the first few days so NO over feeding. Make sure to have some hiding spots made out of pvc pipes or egg crate plastic so the fish don’t get stressed. IMO this is the only way to kill ich, and yes it sucks, but do it right the first time or you’ll have a tank full of dead fish. Good luck.

 

[tritonpower]

If he's eating better and your other fish are not showing signs of infection, I would leave him be and continue to feed. You are right unassuming that a move would stress him out. If you can, get some vitamins (Selcon Fish Supplement) to add to the food and help give the immune system a little boost. The healthier the fish the better the slime coat, the better slime coat the better it functions at defending against critters.

Id follow your gut and throttle your UV to get the right benefits out of it. If you are experiencing an introduction of a parasite or outbreak of something existing, it will help slow down the reproduction and make it more manageable for all of your fish.

Hope it turns out well

I'll try that tonight and see how it goes. Thx

 

[tritonpower]

I have a whole ton of forums of me going through ich this year. And it’s been frustrating but i’ve bypassed the ich and let me tell you how you can too. I don’t know how many fish you have but if its just the tang, you should be fine with a 20g long qt tank. If more then that, pick up a 55g tank which will be suitable for housing your fish for a few months. Quarantining your fish and letting the DT sit fallow for A minimum of 3 months is very important. You need to make a qt tank now or the longer you wait, the worse/longer you have to wait for the ich to die off in the DT. Only copper based medications can actually kill the ich off the fish in the qt. Order some copper power and a hanna copper checker. Make sure to order extra reagents because they will run out fast. Put a HOB filter or two and a heater with a power head and you should be fine. Also take some of your bio media from your dt and set it into your qt. Ammonia and nitrites WILL spike in the first few days so NO over feeding. Make sure to have some hiding spots made out of pvc pipes or egg crate plastic so the fish don’t get stressed. IMO this is the only way to kill ich, and yes it sucks, but do it right the first time or you’ll have a tank full of dead fish. Good luck.

I have an empty 20 gallon I can use. If any worse that's my backup plan. Thx

 

[01xp]

Copper will not kill the ich on the fish it kills the free swimming stage. If you don't see any other infections on your other fish I would get some vitamins and bump all their immune systems, and set the uv the best you can for parasites. BUT have a qt running copper on stand by just in case it's needed. If you do go the qt route then it's about 3 months fallow.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Since all the fish have potentially been exposed, this can end up being more than pulling the tang.
First thing to do is try and confirm that it is indeed ich: look for the original spots going away and new spots showing up. If the same spots are in the same location for 72+ hours, it isn’t ich.
Jay

 

[nano_ryan]

Copper will not kill the ich on the fish it kills the free swimming stage. If you don't see any other infections on your other fish I would get some vitamins and bump all their immune systems, and set the uv the best you can for parasites. BUT have a qt running copper on stand by just in case it's needed. If you do go the qt route then it's about 3 months fallow

Do not listen to this guy!! Ich will NOT go away on its own no matter how healthy the fish's immune system is. The parasite falls off the fish's scales then burrows itself into the substrate or rocks, then releases free swimmers to find a host. A continues cycle of this while the tank goes fallow will eventually kill off every parasite in the tank, therefore waiting 3 months or longer. Uv does kill ich but not all of it, and if it isn't plumbed correctly it wont kill anything. Remember uv sterilizers eradicates ich, doesn't kill all of it.

 

[01xp]

Do not listen to this guy!! Ich will NOT go away on its own no matter how healthy the fish's immune system is. The parasite falls off the fish's scales then burrows itself into the substrate or rocks, then releases free swimmers to find a host. A continues cycle of this while the tank goes fallow will eventually kill off every parasite in the tank, therefore waiting 3 months or longer. Uv does kill ich but not all of it, and if it isn't plumbed correctly it wont kill anything. Remember uv sterilizers eradicates ich, doesn't kill all of it.

Wow your the one that just said copper will kill the ich off the fish! So if you don't know what your talking about the don't be bashing people. Copper only kills the free swimming stage not the parasite that's on the fish........

 

[nano_ryan]

Wow your the one that just said copper will kill the ich off the fish! So if you don't know what your talking about the don't be bashing people. Copper only kills the free swimming stage not the parasite that's on the fish........

Congratulations, you found the one sentence that I misinterpreted. The ich falls off the fish then dies in the free swimming fish, but its almost the exact same as it dieing off ON the fish. And helping someone with actual knowledge and experience with ich is not "bashing".

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi folks, can we get back to trying to help the OP?
Differences of opinion vary when it comes to aquariums. Instead of engaging each other, perhaps provide good references to the OP so they can draw their own conclusions.
Thanks,
Jay

 

[tritonpower]

Hi folks, can we get back to trying to help the OP?
Differences of opinion vary when it comes to aquariums. Instead of engaging each other, perhaps provide good references to the OP so they can draw their own conclusions.
Thanks,
Jay

thanks Jay. At work now and will examine the tang and other fish tonight. Hoping for good news!

 

[cryptodendrum]

Everything you need to know about the life cycle of Ich is here:

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Marine "Ich"

atj.net.au

Treatment options for Ich are on this page of the same site.

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Treatments

atj.net.au

I've followed that Hyposalinity Treatment explained there for 15 years, starting with all my fish in a 250 liter tank at once, and then Hypo'ing all incoming fish in Quarantine for 3 months ever since, and have never lost a fish and no parasites / disease in my tanks since then.

Corals also are QT'd for 3 months (Do not Hypo those) & dipped appropriately for parasites & possible disease.

 

[Maks Reef]

Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Ich eradication vs. Ich management The purpose of this article is to discuss the pros & cons of ich eradication and ich management, and present the best methods for implementing each. Ich eradication - Simply put, this method means doing everything possible to keep ich out of your tank. That...

www.reef2reef.com

Give that thread a read. It’s from one of this forums and really the industries most regarded individuals on the topic.

There really is no right or wrong. Make a educated decision based off the information you have and what you feel best suits you.

good luck!

 

[tritonpower]

The spots on the left side are all gone. There is now a faint white patch on the right fin. See pictures. All other fish are clear. The tomini is still eating well.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That could actually be bad news. In my earlier post, I mentioned if the spots go away after a period of time, it is more likely to be ich. What happens is that the mature ich parasite drops off the fish and then reproduces. The resulting organisms re-infect the fish in greater numbers. The period of time when there are no ich tomonts visible on the fish tend to give people false hope that it has gone away. This is the "sweet spot" that "ich management" relies on - the hope is that due to great conditions, good food and perhaps a UV sterilizer, that the returning parasites have difficulty "landing" back on the fish. In reality though, the normal course of events is that more trophonts are formed, and they in turn multiply, and eventually, the numbers get high enough to cause death.

Fingers crossed - but be prepared to see the spots return in 24 to 48 hours.....

Jay

 

[Maks Reef]

That could actually be bad news. In my earlier post, I mentioned if the spots go away after a period of time, it is more likely to be ich. What happens is that the mature ich parasite drops off the fish and then reproduces. The resulting organisms re-infect the fish in greater numbers. The period of time when there are no ich tomonts visible on the fish tend to give people false hope that it has gone away. This is the "sweet spot" that "ich management" relies on - the hope is that due to great conditions, good food and perhaps a UV sterilizer, that the returning parasites have difficulty "landing" back on the fish. In reality though, the normal course of events is that more trophonts are formed, and they in turn multiply, and eventually, the numbers get high enough to cause death.

Fingers crossed - but be prepared to see the spots return in 24 to 48 hours.....

Jay

Just thinking out loud.. If this were ICH, wouldn't a resurgence be an almost certainty?

I'm under the impression that UV sterilizes the theronts (and possibly protomonts and tomites) which leaves them unable to reproduce in later phases of their life cycle. This means that the suspected trophonts, now protomonts, that fell off the Tomini will in fact nest, release tomites, turn theronts, and ultimately re-infect new hosts. I assume that there is a chance that if any of the current trophonts, now protomonts, happen to pass through a properly set UV while looking for a site to "nest" they will no longer be able to reproduce; however, the ones that avoid the UV could. The tomites/theronts from this cycle will be affected the most by the now running UV, now reducing the number of new tomites/theronts that can be produced. This will then reduce the amount of parasites with the ability to infect new hosts and continue the manage the parasites in the same manner in future cycles.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just thinking out loud.. If this were ICH, wouldn't a resurgence be an almost certainty?

I'm under the impression that UV sterilizes the theronts (and possibly protomonts and tomites) which leaves them unable to reproduce in later phases of their life cycle. This means that the suspected trophonts, now protomonts, that fell off the Tomini will in fact nest, release tomites, turn theronts, and ultimately re-infect new hosts. I assume that there is a chance that if any of the current trophonts, now protomonts, happen to pass through a properly set UV while looking for a site to "nest" they will no longer be able to reproduce; however, the ones that avoid the UV could. The tomites/theronts from this cycle will be affected the most by the now running UV, now reducing the number of new tomites/theronts that can be produced. This will then reduce the amount of parasites with the ability to infect new hosts and continue the manage the parasites in the same manner in future cycles.

Yes, almost a certainty that if it is ich, that it will return. that’s why I added “in reality...”. I’ve managed to quell minor infections in low fish density reef systems, but only a couple of times.
I’ve never heard about ich being “sterilized” by UV. That term implies sexual reproduction, and ich is of course asexual. I suppose the UV could disrupt the cellular fission process, but I was always taught about “kill rate” as it relates to Cryptocaryon, on the order of 300,000+ uwsec/cm2 and Yanong says the kill rate can be as high as 800,000....so not at all practical in home aquariums.
Jay

 

[old salt reefer]

I read somewhere cleaner shimp eat ich in all it's different life forms. I'm just throwing this into the conversation. Not sure if it's true or where it fits in. Maybe someone else has input on it.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I read somewhere cleaner shimp eat ich in all it's different life forms. I'm just throwing this into the conversation. Not sure if it's true or where it fits in. Maybe someone else has input on it.

They do eat trophonts, but not fast enough to control the disease progression.
Jay