Ich management not working?

[John A!10]

So two weeks ago I saw the first signs of Ich in my tank around 10 white spots on my clown. I qt fish, but not corals which is what I got it from. I thought I’m going to manage it as I can’t qt coral, and with a fallow period ich will just come back on inverts or coral. Well today the ich is back and their is definitely more(not too bad), but now it is in both clowns not the firefish. I feed mysis shrimp brine shrimp and pellets soaked in selcon, and they are all eating really good. What can I do? My tank is a 29 gallon so I don’t have much space in the sump, I’m trying to find a UV sterilizer to buy. I am also using the Polyp lab reef safe medic to help combat.

 

[John A!10]

Also note that my qt tank is not up and running right now.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Ich management is a myth. It doesn’t work in small enclosed systems because the fish can not get away from the parasites when they are free swimming stages like they can in larger systems or in the ocean. Also, most people who think they are managing it don’t have it or have resistant fish. Remove all your fish and treat them in 10 gallon qt tanks with ammonia alert badges. QT tanks should not be cycled because this can degrade medication. Either use tank transfer method or medication. Chloroquine Phosphate is the safest and most effective if you can get it.

If you dont know if it's velvet or ich, this is worth a shot as it works for both

https://humble.fish/ttm-for-velvet/

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any pics of fish with dots?
You could be treating for ich not realizing it may be brooklynella, Oodinum or even velvet

 

[HuduVudu]

If you are "managing" ich it is REALLY REALLY important that you have good oxygen levels in the tank. That means that you need to make sure that your CO2 levels near your tank are near 500ppm and that you don't have anything impeding gas exchange on the top of the water. The reason I say CO2 is because it is difficult to measure O2 and this is a good proxy. One thing to note is that even with proper gas exchange tanks have a maxiumum load that they can carry for things that consume oxygen. This includes your biological filter. Do NOT exceed this load our you will stress your fish and they will get ich.

The next thing is that you have a biologically diverse tank. Ensure this with live rock or infusions from mature tanks or additions of from oceanic sources. Indo Pacific Sea Farms is a good example.

With these two things you should never have to deal with ich again. One caveat, stressors will bring the ich back. This is actually a benefit because it gives you a clue that there is a stressor in the tank and that you need to find it and act on it. Once the stressor is removed then the tank will quickly return back to normal.

Hope this helps.

 

[John A!10]

Any pics of fish with dots?
You could be treating for ich not realizing it may be brooklynella, Oodinum or even velvet

I’m almost certain it’s not brooklynella as the fish would have gotten more slime by now. Velvet would have killed my fish already. Will post pics soon.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m almost certain it’s not brooklynella as the fish would have gotten more slime by now. Velvet would have killed my fish already. Will post pics soon.

Not saying its either one- Stating that you MAY be treating for something its not. Could even be Lymphocystis

 

[John A!10]

If you are "managing" ich it is REALLY REALLY important that you have good oxygen levels in the tank. That means that you need to make sure that your CO2 levels near your tank are near 500ppm and that you don't have anything impeding gas exchange on the top of the water. The reason I say CO2 is because it is difficult to measure O2 and this is a good proxy. One thing to note is that even with proper gas exchange tanks have a maxiumum load that they can carry for things that consume oxygen. This includes your biological filter. Do NOT exceed this load our you will stress your fish and they will get ich.

The next thing is that you have a biologically diverse tank. Ensure this with live rock or infusions from mature tanks or additions of from oceanic sources. Indo Pacific Sea Farms is a good example.

With these two things you should never have to deal with ich again. One caveat, stressors will bring the ich back. This is actually a benefit because it gives you a clue that there is a stressor in the tank and that you need to find it and act on it. Once the stressor is removed then the tank will quickly return back to normal.

Hope this helps.

My fish never got immune to ich it is still trying to. My oxygen level I’m almost sure is high, because my return line is giving so much flow as well as the wavemaker. What do you mean by biodiversity? I have a lot of copepods, amphipods,etc.

 

[John A!10]

Not saying its either one- Stating that you MAY be treating for something its not. Could even be Lymphocystis

1 clown does have lymphocytes but they are large rounds, and they are getting better. The other ones are smaller spots more white. Pics coming soon.

 

[John A!10]

It is very difficult to get pics as these spots can only be seen clearly under the blue lights.l

 

[HuduVudu]

My fish never got immune to ich it is still trying to. My oxygen level I’m almost sure is high, because my return line is giving so much flow as well as the wavemaker. What do you mean by biodiversity? I have a lot of copepods, amphipods,etc.

I saw your set up you are using a glass top.

It isn't good to guess. Be sure because this is key to getting this to work.

Ich immunity is a myth. If your fish stress and there is ich present they will get it. IMO it is better to focus on the stressors and not on the disease. Without the disease the stressors will still kill and they will do it silently.

Copepods and amphipods are only a couple of things they are not enough. Bacteria, microfauna etc ... these are some of the things that bring biodiversity and ultimately stability.

 

[John A!10]

I saw your set up you are using a glass top.

It isn't good to guess. Be sure because this is key to getting this to work.

Ich immunity is a myth. If your fish stress and there is ich present they will get it. IMO it is better to focus on the stressors and not on the disease. Without the disease the stressors will still kill and they will do it silently.

Copepods and amphipods are only a couple of things they are not enough. Bacteria, microfauna etc ... these are some of the things that bring biodiversity and ultimately stability.

Ok I’ll look into the this.

 

[John A!10]

Pics

 

[John A!10]

Pics

They have a bunch of these but much much smaller than the one in the pic.

 

[John A!10]

I saw your set up you are using a glass top.

It isn't good to guess. Be sure because this is key to getting this to work.

Ich immunity is a myth. If your fish stress and there is ich present they will get it. IMO it is better to focus on the stressors and not on the disease. Without the disease the stressors will still kill and they will do it silently.

Copepods and amphipods are only a couple of things they are not enough. Bacteria, microfauna etc ... these are some of the things that bring biodiversity and ultimately stability.

I will make a diy mesh top, so you have any link or info on different types of bacteria, or micro fauna?

 

[[Cameron]]

Take every fish out of your main tank and put them in a QT tank for at least eight weeks. The QT tank should have no rock, sand, etc. Just fish and a bare bottom. Dose copper in the QT tank at about half the recommended amount. Do 1/3 water changes daily or 1/2 water changes every other day. Do NOT use anything from your QT tank in your main tank... ever. Anything that touches your QT tank such as a net is now a QT tank only item.

At the end of eight weeks ich will be dead in your main tank and your fish will be ich free. I suggest you don't put anything else in your tank from a setup with fish unless it goes through at least a four week QT and that includes coral.

 

[John A!10]

Take every fish out of your main tank and put them in a QT tank for at least eight weeks. The QT tank should have no rock, sand, etc. Just fish and a bare bottom. Dose copper in the QT tank at about half the recommended amount. Do 1/3 water changes daily or 1/2 water changes every other day. Do NOT use anything from your QT tank in your main tank... ever.

I currently have COVID and I’m in quarantine. I will keep this as a last resort. Will 10g be enough for two clowns and a firefish?

 

[John A!10]

Could it possibly be debris or something on the fish? They are very very small unlike ich. They fall of one day, and reappear like two days later.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Pics

Cryptocaryon irritans is a species of ciliate protozoa that parasitizes marine fish, and is one of the most common causes of disease in marine aquaria. It is one of the most prevalent parasites in the saltwater aquarium world is Cryptocaryon irritans (Crypto), is a ciliated, protozoan parasite that causes a disease known as marine ich or marine white spot disease in both wild and aquacultured marine fishes.
Although copper is very effective on Oodinium, and it works well to eliminate Cryptocaryon organisms in their free-swimming tomite stage, it is not effective on the Cryptocaryon trophonts that burrow deeply into the tissues of fish, so the aquarium needs to be treated repeatedly until all of the trophonts mature. Because of the prolonged life cycle of Cryptocaryon, affected aquariums should be treated for a minimum of 3–6 weeks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Could it possibly be debris or something on the fish? They are very very small unlike ich. They fall of one day, and reappear like two days later.

That does happen. You can give it gentle bursts with a turkey baster and if sand, will fall off