I share your concern as well. Time will tell.
As I thought.What people call "Ich Management" I call immunity. Only very healthy fish can be immune. Using copper or any other chemical means to kill parasites goes totally against "my" Immunity theories.
You can read my thoughts on it here:
The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)
The other way to run a reef tank (No Quarantine) I was asked by my friend Humblefish to start a thread on my practices of running a tank with no quarantine, hospital tanks, medications, dipping or almost anything else. It is "not" just to take a fish from a store and drop it in your reef...www.reef2reef.com
Should be ok- focus on water quality and add aeration during the quarantine period
www.reef2reef.com
My system is at the least 17 months old, possibly more so I think it's well matured at this stage. Maybe that's why the royal gramma has developed an immunity (plus the fact it's healthy, and maybe also because it's wild caught).
Oh right... I was under the impression 3 fish would be too many nevermind 5. Would they be OK in it for the full fallow period (76 days)? I have the option of adding a large canister filter to add a little more water/media for bacteria (after copper treatment of course).
I think I recall reading something along these lines in Humblefish's posts regarding nightly dosing of H2O2. I've not tried the nightly dosing yet as I had to go on holidays just before the 3rd week and didn't want to risk an overdose while I was away. I'm going to see the H2O2 through this time (providing no seriously ill affects and providing my tang improves) so I'll try nightly then too.
Given how expensive UV equipment can be, and the info you and others have stated, I think I may just leave UV for now.1) Regarding UV, sizing them can be very difficult. The dose is dependent on wattage and flow rate. For your tank, I would say that 40 watts would be best. Here is some text that I wrote on that:
UV sterilizers
Ultraviolet (UV) sterilizers are also sold as a “cure” for Cryptocaryon. The problem is that most hobbyist-sized UV sterilizers do not have the power to make an effective kill on the relatively large Cryptocaryon parasite. Additionally, UV sterilizers are effective only on the tomite/theront stage, as this is the only point where the parasite is even present in the water column.
For velvet, Amyloodinium, the fallacy here is that tomites/theronts must leave the fish. Actually, some of them may get caught up in the fish’s mucus and stay attached until they become infective trophonts again. For Cryptocaryon, the tomites/theronts do seem to need to leave the fish, but with side stream application of UV (where only a portion of water passes through the unit) DWELL TIME becomes the limiting factor. Only a portion of the theronts are killed before enough of them attach to the fish to continue the infection. This means that UV sterilization will not eliminate active Cryptocaryon infections from a single aquarium. Where it does have benefit is in eliminating tomites as they pass through a filtration system from one discrete tank to another (like in a public aquarium or fisheries lab). Decades ago, diatom filters were touted as cures for ich and velvet. The same issue applies with them; there are adherent forms of these protozoans that can continue to infect the fish without ever having to leave the fish’s body. Even if they do, the same “dwell time” factor means that some theronts will still be present in the water column to infect the fish.
A recent study (Ge-Ling, 2022) indicates that the UV dose required to kill Cryptocaryon theronts/tomites is 185,000 uw/S/cm2. They do go on however, to conclude: “ …both ozone and UV are ineffective in controlling infection within an individual aquarium because of the adhesive nature of C. irritans tomonts (Ma et al., 2017). Therefore, the focus on UV and ozone treatment should prevent live theronts flow into aquaculture ponds. Second, the tomonts are strongly resistant to UV or ozone than theronts, implying that recommended production doses cannot wholly kill tomonts….”
2) 77 F. is fine
3) re: sandsifting starfish, that could be an issue, but leaving the resting tomonts in the tank is more of an issue, IMO.
4) Yes, 5 micron bag filters are great, as long as there is no "blow by", and all water goes through them.
5) H2O2 dosing really needs to be managed through test strips to measure the actual free peroxide levels, as those change over time. You simply cannot safely dose this at a level that will kill parasites, without testing to ensure that the free peroxide levels don't get too high. It is a real tightrope walk. Here is my article on peroxide use:
Hydrogen Peroxide Bench-testing
Bench testing of the effects of hydrogen peroxide in aquariums.
Jay
6-8 weeks sufficient. obviously, the longer you perform fallow is the best you will eradicate disease that require a host fish to reproduce.
I know Jay has a thread on a 45 day fallow period, just haven't had the chance to read it yet. A shorter fallow period certainly makes it more appealing, though I can't help but think at some stage down the line ich will just rear it's ugly head again! If I can't 'manage' this outbreak, and my tang deteriorates then fallow it is.
Starting to think ich management is a combination of the standard approach as you've described and summarised well, which can lead to Paul's 'immunity' approach.
Haha thanks Kev!
All that’s great news. Maturity, stability and eating my lean the success in our favor.
I agree, I was tempted to try and catch it today but I know it would be next to impossible. Plus the stress of chasing it alone may kill it.
Personally, I don’t think either are very effective on Ick, but I have more concern with peroxide as it certainly is bad if dosed incorrectly or maybe ineffective in combination with UV.
I used it with adding a uv, increased water changes and heavy feeding with food soaked in Vitachem, Selcon and garlic extreme. I can’t say if all or one or more worked but it was part of what I implemented.
