Ich Management UV Sterilizer

Huskymaniac · Jan 2, 2019

I am thinking about plumbing a 120 watt uv sterilizer on my reefer 750. Definitly overkill but pentair recomends around 640 gallons gph for protozoa infections running through the unit. My return pump should handle that no issues. Essentially if I do that I would be seperating my sump from the display. Anything going down will not be comming back up. In regards to disease control do you think this is an effective method.

EmdeReef · Jan 2, 2019

To some degree it may help kill ich theronts and other parasites. The thing is that there’s not enough research into how effective UV is on C.irritans and at what level of radiation. There’s a handful of studies which state levels of UV radiation that would be hard to get by almost any hobby grade unit (reasonably sized). Then there are industry numbers which are a bit more optimistic but not sure what are they backed by...

Here’s one summary of some of the research sources:

Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts
has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthy- ophthirius multifiliis (freshwater “ich”). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 μWsec/ cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required for Cryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 μWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 μWsec/cm2 (Colorni and Burgess 1997).

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA16400.pdf

Brett newell · Jan 2, 2019

Very nice write up Emdereef.
I did a bit of research into this also and found the same thing as above. Mostly hearsay but nothing rock solid. So, since I seek out sick fish at local stores to work on my qt methods I tried a uv sterilizer. It was rated for 55 to 75 gallon tanks, I bought it online i will try and find link tomorrow. Anyway, I put it in my 20 long qt with a small kole tang that had ich.
Before adding the uv light I did a week of deworming so the experiment would be slightly more controlled. After installing the uv I observed the fish and noticed no decline in the amount of spots that came and went for about 2 weeks. Then it got bad enough that I took out the uv and went to CP to save the fish.
So, either the UV did nothing at all. Or possibly it suppressed it a tiny bit. But certainly not enough for me to forgo qt and go to ich management

theMeat · Jan 2, 2019

It’s more than enough and no matter how big it won’t get everything

Huskymaniac · Jan 2, 2019

Brett newell said:
Very nice write up Emdereef.
I did a bit of research into this also and found the same thing as above. Mostly hearsay but nothing rock solid. So, since I seek out sick fish at local stores to work on my qt methods I tried a uv sterilizer. It was rated for 55 to 75 gallon tanks, I bought it online i will try and find link tomorrow. Anyway, I put it in my 20 long qt with a small kole tang that had ich.
Before adding the uv light I did a week of deworming so the experiment would be slightly more controlled. After installing the uv I observed the fish and noticed no decline in the amount of spots that came and went for about 2 weeks. Then it got bad enough that I took out the uv and went to CP to save the fish.
So, either the UV did nothing at all. Or possibly it suppressed it a tiny bit. But certainly not enough for me to forgo qt and go to ich management

Would really be curious to see what UV sterilizer this was. I know the contact time and wattage are imperative so you need slow and oversized. Not sure it's best to look at the recommended tank size verses flow rates. Definitly an interesting topic and conversation.

Trickman2 · Jan 2, 2019

I think it really will depend on wattage. Also think it is too late once it is widespread. Think of more of a management tool. I just installed this one on my 280. https://www.marinedepot.com/Pro_Max...iums-Lifegard_Aquatics-RB31821-FIUVUU-vi.html

Huskymaniac · Jan 2, 2019

Trickman2 said:
I think it really will depend on wattage. Also think it is too late once it is widespread. Think of more of a management tool. I just installed this one on my 280. https://www.marinedepot.com/Pro_Max...iums-Lifegard_Aquatics-RB31821-FIUVUU-vi.html

Was looking at that one also. Did you go with the 120 watt?

Hermie · Jan 3, 2019

I just did a bunch of reading on the UVC lamp I'm using now... it's a Philips TUV PL-S 13W (3.5W of UV). Basically, you can extrapolate from my case (semi-low power lamp) to your setup,
Philips rates "kill dosages" for different stuff in their brochure, and by far, the most resistant organism (bacteria, virus or otherwise) is cyanobacteria which requires 3,000 J/m^2 of UV. Now, there's a formula you can use on your lamp to determine it's UV radiance listed below. Now, mine puts out 3.5Watts of UVC. Thus, after calculations, my lamp will only kill cyanobacteria at the dosage that's within about 1mm of the lamp. Now, that's cyanobacteria... if we are talking about other protozoa like those referenced here, they only require up to 800J/m^2... so my lamp could definitely kill them, and it's only putting out 3.5watts UVC... and my lamp will hit the 800J/m^2 mark at 4.973mm. So any ich within half a centimeter exposed for 1 second will die... so depending on your vessel and flow rate... you can see how much you are killing compared to whole tank.

The formula is:

So shorter distance is defined as less than half a meter (which is of course what we are talking about here)

the greek (or latin?) character is equal to your lamps UV wattage output, not the total wattage.

here's the brochure:
http://prolight.info/pdf_specs/Philips_UV_tech_brochure.pdf

theMeat said:
It’s more than enough and no matter how big it won’t get everything

true, but "everything" is relative

Hermie · Jan 3, 2019

Huskymaniac said:
Was looking at that one also. Did you go with the 120 watt?

So, doing a little algebra and based on the spec, the 120 Watt puts out 37W UVC and estimating the bulb length at 75cm... and then setting the distance from the lamp at 2cm, about halfway between lamp and container wall...

everything that's within 2cm of the lamp is getting at least... 37/(2pi*75cm*2cm) = ~0.039258 Watts/cm^2 which is 39,258 μW/cm^2
and you are talking theoretically 800,000 μW/cm^2 needed... which is 0.8W/cm^2
so 800 vs 40... of course the closer you get to the lamp the higher the wattage, but anything 2cm or farther needs at least 20 seconds in the tube to hit that 800,000 mark. And you are talking a huge flow rate... So I am not trying to be a scientist here just doing sample calculations to myself to get an idea... basically, it comes down to how slow can you flow through the tube, how much UV wattage is it putting out, and how big is your tank...

Trickman2 · Jan 3, 2019

Huskymaniac said:
Was looking at that one also. Did you go with the 120 watt?

Went with the 90 watt as it was the biggest one I could fit.

Trickman2 · Jan 3, 2019

Also note the pro version is using a anolgram bulb.

Huskymaniac · Jan 3, 2019

Trickman2 said:
Also note the pro version is using a anolgram bulb.

What's the difference?

4FordFamily · Jan 3, 2019

The flow has to be very, very slow for it to make a marginal impact in most scenarios if I recall. I never found them useful for parasite control but others have. I have had success with them for algae and bacterial blooms, not an et all end all but certainly a help!

Huskymaniac · Jan 3, 2019

4FordFamily said:
The flow has to be very, very slow for it to make a marginal impact in most scenarios if I recall. I never found them useful for parasite control but others have. I have had success with them for algae and bacterial blooms, not an et all end all but certainly a help!

I know Pentair has different flow rates. The 120 watt they recommend like 3,000 gph for algea control and 600 gph for protozoa and bacteria. The 600 GPH is just about what what my red sea reefer return line is so seems like a perfect fit.