Ich on my Purple tangs.

[Diesel]

I have two purple tangs along with some high end wrasses.
For the first time I have noticed ich on the P tangs.
So now what to do?
They are in a 202 DT full of SPS
I been reading a lot and it can be that the P tang will cure them self.
Just feed them good, even in some drenched food with garlic extreme.
Used to have a QT but due to a remodel I had to take it down.
Open to some Secret suggestions, please!

Here's a pic of the tank.

 

[jedimasterben]

If you can see the spots, they are losing the battle already and means that they are heavily infected. Ich first attacks the gills and can live there for years and then multiply and really strike without warning. All fish need to be removed from DT and treated with Cupramine or hyposalinity to be rid of it and system needs to be left fishless for up to 8 weeks. If you decide not to, you're weighing the odds heavily in favor of the parasite. There are no reef safe remedies, and things like garlic do not work at all, despite what people say. The only thing that kills ich is a hyposaline environment, copper, or starvation (ie no host).

 

[bobbyM]

Metronidazole and Focus. You mix them in a 5/1 ratio and soak your frozen food. Feed heavily until the ich is gone. I also soak in a little garlic extract and Selcon.

 

[jedimasterben]

Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

 

[KoleTang]

Before you go all extreme, I'd see if you can get it under control by #1: Feeding super healthy vitamin enriched foods, #2: Making the fish feel safe (if there is a bully fish, then that will not help anything), #3: Keeping water quality at its best and consistent. Basically, you want to make the fish strong, build up its immune system and its slime coat to help it fight off the parasite.

If you think the fish needs some help fighting the problem, then give it a freshwater dip. (Only if you can do so with minimal stress)

Many, many reefers have had ich in their systems and beaten it without removing all the fish and doing all these treatments and such. In fact, tangs are prone to ich and some reefers notice the tang will have a few spots every now and then but will fight them off.

Now if you can't beat it with this method for some reason, then go with other treatments.

What do you think happens when a fish gets ich in the wild? Does it just flop over and die a pathetic death?

 

[jedimasterben]

What do you think happens when a fish gets ich in the wild? Does it just flop over and die a pathetic death?

I don't think you know how Cryptocaryon truly works. There are three stages - one is a trophont, the parasite is attached to the fish and actively attacking it, whether it be in the gills or on the body (these are the white spots that are seen), the next is a protomont, when the parasite drops off the fish and encapsulates itself and becomes a tomont. Then it divides, and divides, and divides. It can stay in this stage for up to 72 days. When the cyst finally does rupture, the now theronts swim and find a host and attach. In the wild, this doesn't happen to the same fish, as by then, the fish is long gone, and the chances of a parasite finding its way to the same host are so slim that they are essentially nonexistant. However, in a captive system, many of the hundreds of theronts will find their way to the same fish. Even healthy fish not previously a host can quickly be taken over by the sudden surge of parasites attacking their gills and body. The now trophont will stay for a few days, then drop off at night - in a captive system, each fish has a place it calls home and will usually return there every night to sleep. The parasites know this, and will once again make it to their host, this time numbering in the hundreds or thousands.

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com


No matter how well fed, at the point you begin seeing labored breathing and spots appearing, it's quite advanced and unlikely that the fish will be able to deal with the parasites by themselves. Garlic does nothing for fish other than sometimes get them to eat more readily.

 

[rewlee]

Jedi, no offense but I really dissagree with you. It is not too late when you see the spots. That means that the immune system of the fish is down and the parasite was able to attach. DO NOT remove from tank right away, that will in most cases kill the fish, and stress out other fish, which may cause them to obtain ICH. Feed well with garlic enriched food.

Figure out why they got it.

What have you done different?

are they new?

what are your prams?

anything that could stress them out?

patience is key here.. hurrying and moving them to treat them will most likely kill them. and may stress the other fish out as well.

 

[rewlee]

don't know if i can post a link, to a different forum, but I would just read all there is on ich. there is a lot of it. here is one, its too late to be lookin all over haha.

ich and the experienced fishkeeper

 

[jedimasterben]

Jedi, no offense but I really dissagree with you. It is not too late when you see the spots. That means that the immune system of the fish is down and the parasite was able to attach. DO NOT remove from tank right away, that will in most cases kill the fish, and stress out other fish, which may cause them to obtain ICH. Feed well with garlic enriched food.

Figure out why they got it.

What have you done different?

are they new?

what are your prams?

anything that could stress them out?

patience is key here.. hurrying and moving them to treat them will most likely kill them. and may stress the other fish out as well.

If the parasites are showing up as theronts on the fish, that means there are thousands in the system and really no question as to whether or not the other fish are infected.

It's a catch 22 - remove the fish and stress them out, or leave in the tank with parasites actively stalking them.

 

[rewlee]

If the parasites are showing up as theronts on the fish, that means there are thousands in the system and really no question as to whether or not the other fish are infected.

It's a catch 22 - remove the fish and stress them out, or leave in the tank with parasites actively stalking them.

Still I disagree. ALL tanks have ICH. people who have set up for years, and something happens stressing a fish out, and boom an outbreak of ICH. I have no idea how it works in the ocean. Ive never seen a fish from the sea with ICH, and never been scuba diving. but in a reef tank ICH is very common. any fish you buy from a LFS will probably had ich or will have ich. getting rid of ICH is pretty much impossible. It could happen, I do not really know. but from what I have read, with others experience and my own experience, Ich isn't something you rid the tank of. It is more of having healthy fish that can fight off the parasite. I agree their are ways of treating it. but removing a fish and stressing it with dips and coppers the negatives out weigh the positives.

I am not telling you your way is wrong. I am just saying what has worked for me, and from what I have read.

Good luck with your Purp Tangs, I hope they pull through.

 

[Nordic]

The logic that all tanks have crypto is like saying all houses have fleas or bedbugs just when you're lazy they show up..
Crypto, like any parasite, can be eradicated and prevented. It is with diligent quarantine procedures and treatments you can prevent it. They are not "always there."

 

[rewlee]

saying it is "Lazy" is not fair. Comparing to fleas makes no sense. I do not want to argue, everyone has their own way of treating ICH. But through reading you seem to see more cases of leaving the fish be and feeding it well, good prams, and stress free works more than most other scenarios. Yes the fish could still die, no doubt their. but saying it is lazy? people have had tanks for years, with no additions in years, and have a break out of ICH due to some kind of stress. If you think that you cannot have ICH with having a "clean'' tank, I would read up a bit. Do they all have it? I do not know. I would think there is the ability to have no ICH but most likely it is in there. I believe the best approach is to make the fish healthy, not rid of the parasite.

 

[hermesfansf]

saying it is "Lazy" is not fair. Comparing to fleas makes no sense. I do not want to argue, everyone has their own way of treating ICH. But through reading you seem to see more cases of leaving the fish be and feeding it well, good prams, and stress free works more than most other scenarios. Yes the fish could still die, no doubt their. but saying it is lazy? people have had tanks for years, with no additions in years, and have a break out of ICH due to some kind of stress. If you think that you cannot have ICH with having a "clean'' tank, I would read up a bit. Do they all have it? I do not know. I would think there is the ability to have no ICH but most likely it is in there. I believe the best approach is to make the fish healthy, not rid of the parasite.

What makes you think all tank have ICH? If you tank is fully cycled and your fish is QT and treated with copper or hypo salinity, I don't see why your tank cant be ICH free? Are u implying all tank have flukes if the fish are treated with 2 weeks for prazipro before adding to the DT? I surely don't think so.

 

[rewlee]

I do not know if all tanks have ICH, I misspoke on the first post. How could a tank, with no additions for years break out with ICH on a fish? I have read many ways ICH could be added to a tank; Coral, LR, Sand even snails. I do not know. I have read it can only be added by fish, and I have read other wise. My point was not that every tank has it, nor did I mean to state that. I wanted to bring across that treating the fish by keeping stress free and feeding well is the best way to fight it. I do not know for sure how and why ICH is introduced to a tank. I just go by what I have heard and read. Yes I believe that having a QT and adding any new fish too it with some treatment is a great idea. But I wouldn't say that you have no chance of having it even with that precaution. I am not claiming to be an expert on this, but have had a small amount of experience. we have really taken over his post, haha.

 

[jedimasterben]

I do not know if all tanks have ICH, I misspoke on the first post. How could a tank, with no additions for years break out with ICH on a fish? I have read many ways ICH could be added to a tank; Coral, LR, Sand even snails. I do not know. I have read it can only be added by fish, and I have read other wise. My point was not that every tank has it, nor did I mean to state that. I wanted to bring across that treating the fish by keeping stress free and feeding well is the best way to fight it. I do not know for sure how and why ICH is introduced to a tank. I just go by what I have heard and read. Yes I believe that having a QT and adding any new fish too it with some treatment is a great idea. But I wouldn't say that you have no chance of having it even with that precaution. I am not claiming to be an expert on this, but have had a small amount of experience. we have really taken over his post, haha.

If it is not preemptively eradicated, it exists in the system. Go back to the life cycle of ich - one stage is encapsulated on a surface. Doesn't matter what that surface is, rock, sand, macro, coral, snail shell. Everything is a carrier of ich, but only fish can be 'infected' by it.


In my last attempt at shying away from ich, all fish were treated with cupramine upon arriving to QT - tangs, mandarins, didn't matter - and my display tank was fallow for eight weeks before additions. All were fine. One day I had to cut QT short on a couple of neon gobies and it all went downhill from there, I lost almost everything. Calling my fish well-fed is doing me a disservice. 3-6 meals every day, with nearly a dozen different foods scattered throughout. My fish were at the utmost of health, and then one day they started dropping like flies. By the theories you put up, ich could never have popped up, and yet it did.

 

[Diesel]

Woow, lots of back and forward.
Having fist tanks for more than 35 years now and Ich was never a problem, talking fresh water here.
Since 18 months now have a salty system and never had to deal with ich, till now.
Many ppl say just that P tangs are the first one to get, till now I don't see any on my other fish, yet!
Tank is healthy and fish are eating.
It seems like as of this morning when my lights slowly came on (radions) the ich was less, as in almost gone.
A few spots but they were faded out.
I have a ZEOvit fueled system with a UV system.
Treatment is possible only in the tank as my QT is gone.
I'm on the limit of my fish and didn't need to have it running as I go to a remodeling too part of the house.
Any in tank with SPS corals treatment or should I just weight it out as of it looks like it's slowly taking care of it self.

Thanks
Ben.

 

[jedimasterben]

Freshwater ich and marine ich are very different, despite having the same name - completely different genus and everything. The treatments are very different, marine ich is incredibly resilient and efficient, whereas freshwater ich not so much.

The spots disappear because the parasites are dropping into the next stage of the cycle. All the spots you saw are going to multiply into hundreds of parasites from each one.

If you don't have a QT, then be prepared for anything. You can't use any medications in the main tank or go hyposaline, it will kill everything besides the fish. All 'reef safe' methods do not work.

 

[KoleTang]

Jedi, I understand how ich works, I just did not think of the difference between being in a tank and in the wild. Thank you for making the point.

What makes you think all tank have ICH? If you tank is fully cycled and your fish is QT and treated with copper or hypo salinity, I don't see why your tank cant be ICH free? Are u implying all tank have flukes if the fish are treated with 2 weeks for prazipro before adding to the DT? I surely don't think so.

Being fully cycled has nothing to do with it. You can treat all your fish and they can be ich free. But ich isn't always on the fish. Ich can be on the rocks, sand, snail shells, coral plugs, equipment, pretty much everything. Do you have the patience to quarantine your rocks and snails for 8 weeks?

Flukes is completely different.

 

[Silvr_Back]

here's my 2 cents and what puzzles me about Ich. Ok say you have your tank running for 8 weeks and you QT all your fish before adding them. If Ich is so easy for tangs to get wont it just get it again and again and again to me it's like it never ends.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[bobbyM]

Metronidazole and Focus. You mix them in a 5/1 ratio and soak your frozen food. Feed heavily until the ich is gone. I also soak in a little garlic extract and Selcon.

Am I the only person that has treated ich this way? It works! And is safe with coral. Research it. This is ichs silver bullet and it works! I have fed it to coral on accident and everything did great. Don't fool yourself with other treatments. Don't stop filtering your tank when your fish are sick. Hospitals are not dirty. I used to have a very crapy supplier of fish and have tried everything. This stuff works.


Have saw, will travel.