Ich Or Something Else In Copper QT

[jreece11]

I used to assume everything was ich, but I think this might be different. I can use an expert eye...and apologize for the bad pics. They don't hold still for me.

Long story short, this batch of fish has been QT with Cuprmaine, measured every other day with Hanna checker between .49 and .52. I add between one two drops a day after reaching .50 therapeutic dose.

Oddly enough both the yellow tank and ice clownfish broke out with white spots, but they aren't the perfect circular "grain of salt" I would expect from ich. It happened around day 8 of QT and now again on day 14 when I was scheduled to remove the copper and start Paprizo.

I've been very calculated to keep the copper at .5, even with water changes (added and tested before adding the water to the tank).

Before I take next steps, I wanted to solicit some expert advice on odds of ich surviving .50 Cupermine for two weeks.

 

[Qasimja]

is something in there absorbing the copper? if i understand once you get copper to the recommended dose you shouldnt have to redose it

 

[DLHDesign]

Looks like that fish may have HLLE - most likely from the copper exposure. How are they eating? And are you vitamin-enriching the food in any way?

 

[jreece11]

is something in there absorbing the copper? if i understand once you get copper to the recommended dose you shouldnt have to redose it

The first week, prior to this two week .49+ consistent dose, I found something was absorbing the copper. No filtration running and you see the PVC only bottom. I found i need to add between one and two drops a day to stay at the .5 dose.

 

[jreece11]

Looks like that fish may have HLLE - most likely from the copper exposure. How are they eating? And are you vitamin-enriching the food in any way?

These are old fish from a tank owner I bought that had them for many years. It came with HLLE.

All fish are eating well, and acting normal. I had planned to start dosing the food with a combination of Seachem Metro + Health Aid Bifuran + Seachem Focus for a 14-day period while they were doing the Prazipro treatment.

 

[DLHDesign]

The first week, prior to this two week .49+ consistent dose, I found something was absorbing the copper. No filtration running and you see the PVC only bottom. I found i need to add between one and two drops a day to stay at the .5 dose.

That's odd. As was said; you shouldn't need to continuously dose in more copper - not unless something like a skimmer is removing water, or when making a water change, of course. The concern here is that something isn't being read properly (perhaps older reagents?) and the copper levels could be higher than you think they are... Do you have another test kit that you can compare to? (Cupramine requires either the Seachem or Salifert test kits.)

 

[jreece11]

That's odd. As was said; you shouldn't need to continuously dose in more copper - not unless something like a skimmer is removing water, or when making a water change, of course. The concern here is that something isn't being read properly (perhaps older reagents?) and the copper levels could be higher than you think they are... Do you have another test kit that you can compare to? (Cupramine requires either the Seachem or Salifert test kits.)

I thought the Hanna copper checker was the defacto copper measurer for us from what I had previously read. New reagents.

 

[DLHDesign]

I thought the Hanna copper checker was the defacto copper measurer for us from what I had previously read. New reagents.

Oh yes - I would agree with the idea that the Hanna is the best option for measuring copper. But even the best options are prone to errors from time to time, so checking them against another standard may help to diagnose potential issues. A tank with no rock, carbon, or other such media or surfaces that would absorb copper should not be having copper drop every day. That you were seeing such a drop is odd, so trying to diagnose why might help to understand any other issues that may exist.
But more importantly; if for some reason the copper was dropping unexplainably, then it's possible that you have not managed to eliminate the ich parasite population. It would be a shame to have gone through all the careful effort you so clearly have done and still end up with infected fish. I'm not saying that has happened; just that it might be an issue.

Also; unless you are transferring JUST the fish (no water; no pumps, etc.) to a new clean tank, the copper treatment will require 30 days at treatment strength. 14 days only works if the fish are removed to another tank. See here.

 

[Saltyreef]

Your copper concentration should be above 2ppm for a minimum of 14 days if trasfering to sterile observation. 30 days if not as mentioned above.
I put my fish straight into 1ppm of copper right away and then slowly raise .25ppm per day until over 2ppm. Never had any issues

 

[DLHDesign]

Your copper concentration should be above 2ppm

That is for chelated copper. With Cupramene (ionic copper) 0.5ppm is the correct level.

 

[Saltyreef]

I must have a reading problem this morning lol. Id switch to chelated copper (copper power) fwiw since issues are persisting with cupramine.

 

[Saltyreef]

You could also, remove the medication, feed high quality frozen with selcon or live foods to negate anymore stress. See if the condition improves or worsens. Observe instead of continue to treat for a week or so.