Ich or velvet? Treating today need guidance.

[dcmartinpc]

First off, all of my fish have been through QT with at least prazi pro and most of them through cupramine. The only ones that didn’t go through cupramine were fish that were in a trusted aquarist’s tank for 5 years that were disease free. When this originally presented I believed it to be ich, but I am now questioning my diagnosis and think it may be velvet. I was planning to start TTM today for ich, but I don’t think TTM works for velvet. Please help and thank you in advance!!!

 

[KJ]

Ich.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[ngoodermuth]

I would say Ich as well, though a pretty severe case.

If you're concerned, the treatment for velvet does eliminate both - just to be safe. Plus, the combination of dips (freshwater + acriflavine) would give them immediate relief and help prevent infection.

 

[dcmartinpc]

I have everything I need to do TTM starting today. My acriflavine won’t be here until tomorrow. I do have cupramine, but for velvet you have to go full strength right away and I have concerns about that. If everyone really thinks it is ich I will stick with TTM with an acriflavin dip in between. Does that sound reasonable?

Thanks again!!!

Don

 

[drstardust]

Hmmm this one is hard to tell. I’d lean toward a bad case if ich as well but can’t be sure. If it were me I’d go ahead with the velvet protocol just to be sure.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Unfortunately getting CP is probably going to be impossible on short notice and I would have to put fish in Cupramine at a full dose right away and wouldn’t that almost be a death sentence, Not ramping up the cupramine?

 

[drstardust]

Unfortunately getting CP is probably going to be impossible on short notice and I would have to put fish in Cupramine at a full dose right away and wouldn’t that almost be a death sentence, Not ramping up the cupramine?

What’s generally recommended is not plopping the fish in copper of therapeutic dosage right away, but ramping it up for the course of 24hrs, rather than more slowly over 3-5 days. You could split the difference and do it over 48hrs if you’d prefer.

 

[dcmartinpc]

24 hours I can do. Half dose at first? Then every 8 hours or so increase dose until at therapeutic levels?

Thanks so much for your help!

Don

 

[Humblefish]

24 hours I can do. Half dose at first? Then every 8 hours or so increase dose until at therapeutic levels?

You have 24-48 hours to get it up to full therapeutic and that's assuming worst case scenario here (velvet).

What I would do is increase the copper in small increments every 8 hours.

 

[VelasCorals]

Ich or sure. That is not a bad case at all. Most likely popped due to the stress of the move. Just provide good water quality and fresh foods and you should be good to go.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Ok. Everything is in fresh new tanks with fresh saltwater. My Ruby Reef Rally arrives this morning. Should I pull them and do a 90 minute bath or just dose the tanks? Also, does the dosage of rally differ between doing a bath or treating in tank?

@Humblefish

Thanks in advance!!!!

Don

 

[Sycoticrealm]

Chance of survival is slim.
I hope you get it taken cared of quickly.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok. Everything is in fresh new tanks with fresh saltwater. My Ruby Reef Rally arrives this morning. Should I pull them and do a 90 minute bath or just dose the tanks? Also, does the dosage of rally differ between doing a bath or treating in tank?

Do a 90 minute bath (don't dose the QT with Rally). Dosage for bath is 2/3 - 1 teaspoon per gallon (you have a lot of leeway).

A 5 min FW dip before the Rally bath is helpful as well for removing most of the trophonts (assuming this is velvet.)

 

[dcmartinpc]

Do a 90 minute bath (don't dose the QT with Rally). Dosage for bath is 2/3 - 1 teaspoon per gallon (you have a lot of leeway).

A 5 min FW dip before the Rally bath is helpful as well for removing most of the trophonts (assuming this is velvet.)

Thank you so much! That clarifies a lot for me. I am planning a freshwater dip later today and a rally bath following.

I’ll keep everyone posted on their treatment.

Don

 

[Zack K]

Ich or sure. That is not a bad case at all. Most likely popped due to the stress of the move. Just provide good water quality and fresh foods and you should be good to go.

Unfortunately one of them is an Acanthurus Tang. They have a very low survival rate in an “Ich management” tank. I’m a firm believer in natural diet of fresh food as well. Don’t get me wrong. Just can’t see it working by only using fresh foods. I have a tried many times with Butterflies, and it is a challenge to get them to eat period, much less when Velvet is present. I had 1 Long Nose come through and live and he is still alive. But lost too many to call it a win.

-Zack

 

[dcmartinpc]

I have decided to stick with only tank transfer method and rally dips between transfers. I do think it is ich also and honestly, if it is velvet, it will be near impossible to save them based on how long I had to wait before I pulled them from the display tank.

But.... Some good news!!!

After 2 days in the separate tanks they are all eating again and there are already significantly fewer ich spots on the fish. I am doing the first transfer tomorrow night and I will be doing a dip in rally for 90 minutes between tanks to help with any secondary infections from the ich.

So far so good. I thought for sure my Angel and White Cheek were goners.

For those interested, these are the fish in QT

Yellow Belly Regal Tang
White Cheek Tang
True Personifer Angelfish
Yellow Tang
Purple Tang
Rhomboid Wrasse (Pair)
Green Chromis (4)
Mochavinci Clownfish (Pair)
Ocellaris Clownfish (3)
Orchid Dottyback
Algae Blenny
Halichoeres Wrasse

Unfortunately I lost a gorgeous Kole Tang and a Royal Gramma in the transition. The Kole succumbed to ich and the gramma got stuck in the rocks

But the fact that everyone is eating is extremely encouraging. I should be able to get some pictures tomorrow as the second set of tanks will be much easier to photograph in.

This is how my fish room looks right now. It is beginning to look like a fish store!

 

[drstardust]

I have decided to stick with only tank transfer method and rally dips between transfers. I do think it is ich also and honestly, if it is velvet, it will be near impossible to save them based on how long I had to wait before I pulled them from the display tank.

But.... Some good news!!!

After 2 days in the separate tanks they are all eating again and there are already significantly fewer ich spots on the fish. I am doing the first transfer tomorrow night and I will be doing a dip in rally for 90 minutes between tanks to help with any secondary infections from the ich.

So far so good. I thought for sure my Angel and White Cheek were goners.

For those interested, these are the fish in QT

Yellow Belly Regal Tang
White Cheek Tang
True Personifer Angelfish
Yellow Tang
Purple Tang
Rhomboid Wrasse (Pair)
Green Chromis (4)
Mochavinci Clownfish (Pair)
Ocellaris Clownfish (3)
Orchid Dottyback
Algae Blenny
Halichoeres Wrasse

Unfortunately I lost a gorgeous Kole Tang and a Royal Gramma in the transition. The Kole succumbed to ich and the gramma got stuck in the rocks

But the fact that everyone is eating is extremely encouraging. I should be able to get some pictures tomorrow as the second set of tanks will be much easier to photograph in.

This is how my fish room looks right now. It is beginning to look like a fish store!

Seems like a reasonable decision. Best of luck!

 

[dcmartinpc]

Progress! Tonight I performed a 90 minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally for the fish in both tanks. I am seeing massive improvement just after the first transfer alone! The white cheek and angel were definitely the worst. The pictures I posted were actually from the night before and had progressed significantly more on both fish by time I transferred them in to the hospital tanks late Friday night. I am happy to report both have improved tremendously and are looking much better! I only have respectable lighting on 1 of my QT tanks so please excuse the poor pictures!

 

[4FordFamily]

Glad you’re seeing progress! If that’s ich, that was one of the worst cases I’ve seen!

I hope it clears up fast!

 

[dcmartinpc]

Let’s hope everything keeps moving the right direction. I am dosing daily with seachem stability to help keep parameters in check and only filtering with basic filter fiber. Makes everything super easy to clean after 3 days and literally “Rinse and Repeat.” I was hoping to see some improvement, but I was not expecting this much. It has been drastic! Everything is eating now too, and that is always a good sign. I am curious how they look tomorrow when the lights come on

The hardest part of all of this is waiting 4 months to put everything back in to the display. Yes, I know I only technically need 76 days, but I am not going to risk it and err way on the side of caution. I have a large skimmer I’m going to run on the QT Systems and I plan on dropping in a large amount of seachem matrix. Matrix has served me very well in QT for biological filtration. And it is relatively cheap overall.

Thanks for checking in everyone! It really helps having the support of the community.

Don