Ich or velvet

[Alotls]

Thought he was battling ich, hippo tang is the only one out of the 8 fish affected. It’s been a couple weeks with small amount of white dots. But now it’s gotten like this. Still eating very very well and very often. I just need to know which disease. If it’s ich I’m gonna go management if it’s velvet I gotta buy another big tank for hospital

 

[Rtaylor]

Hard to be 100% certain from the pic, but pretty sure ich. Especially if it’s been that way a few weeks. Velvet kills in days, not weeks.

 

[argiBK]

@Jay Hemdal

To me, your photos are inconclusive as (Hippo) tangs are especially susceptible to both and tend to show more ich spots than other species when they have it.

Seems like velvet would probably show more, smaller spots, with the fish looking like it rolled around in powdered sugar. It’s also far more infective and much faster at killing fish than ich.

 

[Alotls]

Hard to be 100% certain from the pic, but pretty sure ich. Especially if it’s been that way a few weeks. Velvet kills in days, not weeks.

That’s what I’m thinking, and prior it wasn’t this bad just a few dots on the first two cycles. This third cycle is just bad I guess. I heard velvet is like you see it and then they’re dead the next day

 

[Alotls]

@Jay Hemdal

To me, your photos are inconclusive as (Hippo) tangs are especially susceptible to both and tend to show more ich spots than other species when they have it.

Seems like velvet would probably show more, smaller spots, with the fish looking like it rolled around in powdered sugar. It’s also far more infective and much faster at killing fish than ich.

 

[Alotls]

@Jay Hemdal

To me, your photos are inconclusive as (Hippo) tangs are especially susceptible to both and tend to show more ich spots than other species when they have it.

Seems like velvet would probably show more, smaller spots, with the fish looking like it rolled around in powdered sugar. It’s also far more infective and much faster at killing fish than ich.

@Jay Hemdal

To me, your photos are inconclusive as (Hippo) tangs are especially susceptible to both and tend to show more ich spots than other species when they have it.

Seems like velvet would probably show more, smaller spots, with the fish looking like it rolled around in powdered sugar. It’s also far more infective and much faster at killing fish than ich.

And wouldn’t velvet be on the clown by now or any of the other fish like the royal g?

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Ich has a clear life cycle. They feed on the fish for 3-7 days, drop off into the substrate for approx 3-72 days and then feed again. That life cycle continues until numbers become to much for the fishes immune system.

Velvet however, is much more aggressive and overwhelms the fishes gills in a matter of days to weeks dependent on fish health and species.

The tang is definitely very breathing fast , I counted over 200 bpm which is a concern. A normal amount is below 100 bpm.

I would highly suggest setting up the QT for the fish. Copperpower treats both ich and velvet so that would be the most practical route.

Are there any other symptoms or strange behavior to note?

 

[Alotls]

Ich has a clear life cycle. They feed on the fish for 3-7 days, drop off into the substrate for approx 3-72 days and then feed again. That life cycle continues until numbers become to much for the fishes immune system.

Velvet however, is much more aggressive and overwhelms the fishes gills in a matter of days to weeks dependent on fish health and species.

The tang is definitely very breathing fast , I counted over 200 bpm which is a concern. A normal amount is below 100 bpm.

I would highly suggest setting up the QT for the fish. Copperpower treats both ich and velvet so that would be the most practical route.

Are there any other symptoms or strange behavior to note?

No other signs, he’s swimming his normal routes and eating straight out my food syringe and he was breathing heavy because I probably just tried to catch him. I have a Hospital tank with copper with a Scopus in it currently. Don’t think it’ll be large enough space for two tangs to get along. But I tried to catch him with no avail as you can see.

 

[00W]

Was able to download.
Looks like ich to me and breathing heavy looks to be stress related as you say.
Post in disease forum and hopefully the medics come a plenty to chime in.
No medic here just trying to help.

 

[sc50964]

I wonder why does it matter when copper is the only easy way to take care of this problem & no - they won’t just heal by themselves when he is like that.

 

[Alotls]

I wonder why does it matter when copper is the only easy way to take care of this problem & no - they won’t just heal by themselves when he is like that.

Because timing matters. If it’s ich I can certainly buy time to get an appropriate set up for all of them to quarantine in. If it’s velvet I need to tear down and bucket them and pray lol, this far in hell probably not make it in a move to a temp quarantine but since he’s eating and I’m using selcon w garlic if he can beat this cycle I can take him out and treat him then. If I keep trying now he’ll become too stressed and die or stop eating. But if it’s velvet I need to take the former and bucket them all

 

[sc50964]

Because timing matters. If it’s ich I can certainly buy time to get an appropriate set up for all of them to quarantine in. If it’s velvet I need to tear down and bucket them and pray lol, this far in hell probably not make it in a move to a temp quarantine but since he’s eating and I’m using selcon w garlic if he can beat this cycle I can take him out and treat him then. If I keep trying now he’ll become too stressed and die or stop eating. But if it’s velvet I need to take the former and bucket them all

“Velvet trophonts (and the correlating dots) are much smaller than ich. They range in size from 10-80 micrometers in diameter. They are also perfectly round. Ich trophonts are more oval shaped and range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers - Humblefish”

 

[Alotls]

“Velvet trophonts (and the correlating dots) are much smaller than ich. They range in size from 10-80 micrometers in diameter. They are also perfectly round. Ich trophonts are more oval shaped and range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers - Humblefish”

I read that and looked at humbles pictures he posted but I still can’t tell so I wanted second (or more) eyes. When In doubt right

 

[hexcolor reef]

I recently treated my clown tang with ParaGuard, black ich as well as bacterial infection worked for both in a matter of days

 

[sc50964]

I recently treated my clown tang with ParaGuard, black ich as well as bacterial infection worked for both in a matter of days

Really? Did you dose it directly to your DT? Or was it a dip? Details pls

 

[sc50964]

I read that and looked at humbles pictures he posted but I still can’t tell so I wanted second (or more) eyes. When In doubt right

I say it’s ich for now since I can count the number of dots without much zooming in

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes, that's a moderate case of marine ich. However, the fish is also breathing fast/heavy and that is a bit unexpected at this stage of the infection. It could be breathing fast from another cause - low dissolved oxygen, flukes or even velvet (unlikely).

I think it is well past the point of being able to get ich management or in-tank treatment/dips to work.

The solution isn't going to be easy: best scenario would be to move all of the fish into a stable treatment tank and dose with coppersafe. Solution #2 would be to move out all of the invertebrates and run the tank in hyposalinity (will not help if the fish has velvet though).

Jay

 

[Alotls]

Yes, that's a moderate case of marine ich. However, the fish is also breathing fast/heavy and that is a bit unexpected at this stage of the infection. It could be breathing fast from another cause - low dissolved oxygen, flukes or even velvet (unlikely).

I think it is well past the point of being able to get ich management or in-tank treatment/dips to work.

The solution isn't going to be easy: best scenario would be to move all of the fish into a stable treatment tank and dose with coppersafe. Solution #2 would be to move out all of the invertebrates and run the tank in hyposalinity (will not help if the fish has velvet though).

Jay

is hyposalinity hard to do without an ato? and okay i will try to get another setup going, hes back to eating much more and ive been doing H202 dosing and feeding selcon soaked everything

 

[Alotls]

is hyposalinity hard to do without an ato? and okay i will try to get another setup going, hes back to eating much more and ive been

Yes, that's a moderate case of marine ich. However, the fish is also breathing fast/heavy and that is a bit unexpected at this stage of the infection. It could be breathing fast from another cause - low dissolved oxygen, flukes or even velvet (unlikely).

I think it is well past the point of being able to get ich management or in-tank treatment/dips to work.

The solution isn't going to be easy: best scenario would be to move all of the fish into a stable treatment tank and dose with coppersafe. Solution #2 would be to move out all of the invertebrates and run the tank in hyposalinity (will not help if the fish has velvet though).

Jay

also is copper power okay? i have my scopus in a 15 on week two of copper power doing well ( he was the original ICh culprite) i may give hippo another two days in the ich cycle since he looks better to try to time it to get him out. if i chase him in his current state it almost would be certain death i presume

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

also is copper power okay? i have my scopus in a 15 on week two of copper power doing well ( he was the original ICh culprite) i may give hippo another two days in the ich cycle since he looks better to try to time it to get him out. if i chase him in his current state it almost would be certain death i presume

Yes, copper power is essentially the same as coppersafe.

Jay