ICH/Velvet :'(

[qstorm]

Tues i woke up to find my yellow tang pale and dying. He was added to the tank about two weeks a go with an two angels (did not qt, didn't set up one as yet) The DT had 2 clowns 1 powder brown tang, a cleaner shrimp, inverts, about 10 coral frags and they have been there for about 2 months no issues.
Yellow tang died tues afternoon. Tues night i got home to find the powder tang filled with white spots,and pale gasping for air and one of the angel barely moving between the rocks. On mon the powder tang was scratching on a rock back and forth and the yellow tang was by the power head (didn't know what any of that meant until now after reading threads). The tangs died leaving the two clowns the shrimps and the verts. There wasn't much i could do, cause i had surgery in about 4 hrs after getting home. When i got home, the two tangs and the one of the angel was no where to be found. i searched the rocks and nada
It only gets worse. I had ordered 4 fish prior to any of this happening and they were delivered on thurs. I called my LFS to see if they could take them until i found out what was going on and of course they said no, cause i didn't buy it from them. ( i had to acclimate them and put them in the tank.
Friday and I found the angel and the yellow tang floating, still no sign of the other tang. (it had to die in one of the cave rocks, i am assuming).
Today i am more mobile and want to save the others. The other angel has the white palish color, so i know its infected but with what...I bought a 10 gallon tank and trying to setup a QT/HT. I ordered and overnight ICH-X and cuprion from amazon. (don't know if that will work )
i have media rocks in my sump and live rocks in the DT. My biggest issue is catching these guys without dismantling the display.....HELP

 

[HotRocks]

Can you post pics of the fish?

Fairly certain you are dealing with velvet based on your description.

You will want to move all of the fish to a QT tank asap and get cuprion to the therapuetic level within the next 48hrs of possible.

Inverts are good to stay in DT. It needs to be fallow for 6 weeks to eliminate velvet. 76 days for ich.

Easiest way to get the fish is going to be dismantling. You may get lucky with a fish trap. Fish that are afflicted or in bad shape may be easier to catch with a net.

A 5min FW dip between the DT and QT may provide temporary relief by removing most of the attached parasites. This can clear the gills and help breathing.

90 min baths in Ruby Reef rally will also increase your survival chances.

 

[qstorm]

Forgot to mention. I am fighting brown algae about two weeks now. Started getting it under control by, turning off the lights and removing the filter socks of the secondary drain. The main drain goes through a roller mat. The skimmer is working fine and i have to clean it every day. I did a 25% water change after the yellow tang died.. My water parameter at the time was
Nitrate 5 red sea kit
Nitrite .02 red sea kit
alk 9 hana checker
cal 450 hanna checker
phos 0.561 hanna checker
ammonia was 0
sal 35
ph 8

after the WC
nitrate 2
nitrite closer to 0 than .05
sal 37, i have to get it down
ph 7.85
ammonia 0.2

 

[qstorm]

Can you post pics of the fish?

Fairly certain you are dealing with velvet based on your description.

You will want to move all of the fish to a QT tank asap and get cuprion to the therapuetic level within the next 48hrs of possible.

Inverts are good to stay in DT. It needs to be fallow for 6 weeks to eliminate velvet. 76 days for ich.

Easiest way to get the fish is going to be dismantling. You may get lucky with a fish trap. Fish that are afflicted or in bad shape may be easier to catch with a net.

A 5min FW dip between the DT and QT may provide temporary relief by removing most of the attached parasites. This can clear the gills and help breathing.

90 min baths in Ruby Reef rally will also increase your survival chances.

 

[MetaKnight101]

Personally I would just take out the rocks and catch them and treat them in a hospital tank. A hospital tank doesn't need to be special just a sponge filter and a ammonia badge alert and has HotRocks said I would raise the Copper levels in as soon as 24-48 hours since you are dealing with velvet which is a fast killer.

 

[LuckyPhil]

I would recommend taking out your scape and catch rather than trying without which will stress the fish and eventually having to take it out anyway.

Please take time to read the stickies as you will know that ichx wont work and should have instead purchased temporary QT tank which can just be large containers/buckets from your hardware store plus heaters and a air pump if you dont already have one.

the important thing to do right now is to identify the parasite. As each have different options (ich you can treat with TTM whereas velvet you cannot). To me it sounds like velvet which is the worse of the two. and you need to act quick if it is (with a FW dip followed by copper)
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-difference-between-ich-velvet.315957/

 

[qstorm]

I would recommend taking out your scape and catch rather than trying without which will stress the fish and eventually having to take it out anyway.

Please take time to read the stickies as you will know that ichx wont work and should have instead purchased temporary QT tank which can just be large containers/buckets from your hardware store plus heaters and a air pump if you dont already have one.

the important thing to do right now is to identify the parasite. As each have different options (ich you can treat with TTM whereas velvet you cannot). To me it sounds like velvet which is the worse of the two. and you need to act quick if it is (with a FW dip followed by copper)
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-difference-between-ich-velvet.315957/

I am in the process of building the Qt ..just got home and was able to catch the fox face and a clown and dip them....put them back in the tank and they started moving a lot more...i will try to get copper un the am.
Check the back of my cover flow and found this thing moving up snd down ..what the heck is this

 

[qstorm]

I would recommend taking out your scape and catch rather than trying without which will stress the fish and eventually having to take it out anyway.

Please take time to read the stickies as you will know that ichx wont work and should have instead purchased temporary QT tank which can just be large containers/buckets from your hardware store plus heaters and a air pump if you dont already have one.

the important thing to do right now is to identify the parasite. As each have different options (ich you can treat with TTM whereas velvet you cannot). To me it sounds like velvet which is the worse of the two. and you need to act quick if it is (with a FW dip followed by copper)
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-difference-between-ich-velvet.315957/

Hi Luckyphil...i tore down my rocks, i caught all the fish and did a fw using fresh water (RO) for each fish. i have them in a QT tank with cuprion. How many days should they be in there and what do i do about the DT. Thanks

 

[MetaKnight101]

Hi Luckyphil...i tore down my rocks, i caught all the fish and did a fw using fresh water (RO) for each fish. i have them in a QT tank with cuprion. How many days should they be in there and what do i do about the DT. Thanks

The recommend treatment for copper should be 30 days and must remain at therapeutic level .4 -.5 for the whole 30 days while managing ammonia through water changes. The DT tank must be fallowed (No fish) for atleast 6 weeks. I would go for 8 weeks to be on the safe side. This allows the velvet to starve since there are no fish for it to feed on. Invertebrates can stay since they are not affected by velvet. During the fallow nothing should go in.

 

[DraggingTail]

How old is this tank?

 

[qstorm]

The recommend treatment for copper should be 30 days and must remain at therapeutic level .4 -.5 for the whole 30 days while managing ammonia through water changes. The DT tank must be fallowed (No fish) for atleast 6 weeks. I would go for 8 weeks to be on the safe side. This allows the velvet to starve since there are no fish for it to feed on. Invertebrates can stay since they are not affected by velvet. During the fallow nothing should go in.

Sorry to report that i lost all my fish and i think the new ones died due to misinformed information or maybe i misunderstood.
The new fish that were added were ok but the ones that i new had velvet i thought i could have saved. You indicated that the levels of copper should be at .4-.5, but the read up on this forum had said 2.5 with in 48 hrs since i didn't have the time for a ramp up. So doing so after testing for copper i tried to bring it up and i think the copper kill them.....
So now i am in the process of installing a UV light. I will leave the tank empty for a while.

Is there any good read up for beginners how to set up a QT and HT. In the future i want to medicate EVERY fish before going into my display tank. Not only did a loose a lot of money, my daughters are so devastated.

Thank you.

 

[qstorm]

How old is this tank?

Tank is about 4-5 months old.

 

[HotRocks]

Sorry to report that i lost all my fish and i think the new ones died due to misinformed information or maybe i misunderstood.
The new fish that were added were ok but the ones that i new had velvet i thought i could have saved. You indicated that the levels of copper should be at .4-.5, but the read up on this forum had said 2.5 with in 48 hrs since i didn't have the time for a ramp up. So doing so after testing for copper i tried to bring it up and i think the copper kill them.....
So now i am in the process of installing a UV light. I will leave the tank empty for a while.

Is there any good read up for beginners how to set up a QT and HT. In the future i want to medicate EVERY fish before going into my display tank. Not only did a loose a lot of money, my daughters are so devastated.

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about your losses.

Each copper product carries it's own therapuetic level. Cuprion is .20ppm. Not 2.5ppm. 2.5ppm is going to be a copper product that is chelated. (coppersafe or copper power). Which actually 2.5ppm is even a bit high for chelated products. Great reference below related to copper levels and testing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

 

[qstorm]

Sorry to hear about your losses.

Each copper product carries it's own therapuetic level. Cuprion is .20ppm. Not 2.5ppm. 2.5ppm is going to be a copper product that is chelated. (coppersafe or copper power). Which actually 2.5ppm is even a bit high for chelated products. Great reference below related to copper levels and testing.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

darn it...I used cuprion and I had it perfect .20 using salifert....I guess I killed them...lesson learned...thanks