ICH

[gjustinj]

How can you tell if you 100% have ich or not? I purchased a flame angel from a LFS about a week or so ago and when I added him to my tank he seemed to have white specs of sand or salt on him, by the next morning they were less and by the afternoon they were pretty much gone. I freaked out not knowing much about how saltwater ich works and ran to my LFS and bought Parashield, and put that into the tank to help add a slime coat.

I was unaware I should have a QT when adding fish (that will be rectified - I am planning to put together 20-40 gallon QT), but my question is how do I know if it is definitely ich? I would prefer to have an ich free tank although it's my understanding that you can get away with having ich in your tank if you keep your water conditions pristine (and I do, Ammonia 0/ Nitrite 0 /Nitrate 5-10 (when it hits 20 I perform a water change))

Right now here is what I have setup:

125 G aquarium / 6ft long
Octo Classic 2K Protein Skimmer (BRS)
Fluval FX 4 Can (I do not know have the room for a sump unfortunately)
120lb of live rock & 3 inch bed of live sand
Reef Breeder Photon-V2 50 LED

Stock:

20 Hermit Crabs
1 Cleaner Shrimp
4 Clown (Ocellaris/1 is a mocha) - I did read after purchasing them that they do better in just a single pair so I am keeping a close eye on these guys.
4 Blue/Green Chromis
1 Bengaii Cardinal
Flame Angel (gets a long great w/ the Coral Beauty) about 3inches / added a week after the CB
Coral Beauty (gets along great w/ the Flame Angel) about 3 inches / added a week before the FA

Coral:
1 Duncan
1 Fruitloop Zoa

Thanks you guys!

Excited to meet the Pittsburgh Marine Club creator tonight at my house!

P.S. - I am new to saltwater fish. I have been up and running nearly 2 months now. It took a little less than a month to turn my Ammonia to Nitrites to Nitrates quickly. The cycle seems to be flourishing and doing really well. Also, I have started to feed my fish only frozen live food (and stopped feeding pellets) after 1 bengaii cardinal died because he was not eating the pellets.

Thanks all and well met - JJ

 

[JaimeAdams]

How can you tell if you 100% have ich or not? I purchased a flame angel from a LFS about a week or so ago and when I added him to my tank he seemed to have white specs of sand or salt on him, by the next morning they were less and by the afternoon they were pretty much gone. I freaked out not knowing much about how saltwater ich works and ran to my LFS and bought Parashield, and put that into the tank to help add a slime coat.

I was unaware I should have a QT when adding fish (that will be rectified - I am planning to put together 20-40 gallon QT), but my question is how do I know if it is definitely ich? I would prefer to have an ich free tank although it's my understanding that you can get away with having ich in your tank if you keep your water conditions pristine (and I do, Ammonia 0/ Nitrite 0 /Nitrate 5-10 (when it hits 20 I perform a water change))

Right now here is what I have setup:

125 G aquarium / 6ft long
Octo Classic 2K Protein Skimmer (BRS)
Fluval FX 4 Can (I do not know have the room for a sump unfortunately)
120lb of live rock & 3 inch bed of live sand
Reef Breeder Photon-V2 50 LED

Stock:

20 Hermit Crabs
1 Cleaner Shrimp
4 Clown (Ocellaris/1 is a mocha) - I did read after purchasing them that they do better in just a single pair so I am keeping a close eye on these guys.
4 Blue/Green Chromis
1 Bengaii Cardinal
Flame Angel (gets a long great w/ the Coral Beauty) about 3inches / added a week after the CB
Coral Beauty (gets along great w/ the Flame Angel) about 3 inches / added a week before the FA

Coral:
1 Duncan
1 Fruitloop Zoa

Thanks you guys!

Excited to meet the Pittsburgh Marine Club creator tonight at my house!

P.S. - I am new to saltwater fish. I have been up and running nearly 2 months now. It took a little less than a month to turn my Ammonia to Nitrites to Nitrates quickly. The cycle seems to be flourishing and doing really well. Also, I have started to feed my fish only frozen live food (and stopped feeding pellets) after 1 bengaii cardinal died because he was not eating the pellets.

Thanks all and well met - JJ

I will tell you if it has ich tonight.

Not creator, just current president of The Pittsburgh Marine Aquarium Society.

Oh and Welcome to Reef2Reef!

 

[dylana407]

Go to Fish Disease Treatment and read the sticky.
Use Google - there are more resources than anyone can tell you.

 

[Brew12]

How can you tell if you 100% have ich or not? I purchased a flame angel from a LFS about a week or so ago and when I added him to my tank he seemed to have white specs of sand or salt on him, by the next morning they were less and by the afternoon they were pretty much gone. I freaked out not knowing much about how saltwater ich works and ran to my LFS and bought Parashield, and put that into the tank to help add a slime coat.

I was unaware I should have a QT when adding fish (that will be rectified - I am planning to put together 20-40 gallon QT), but my question is how do I know if it is definitely ich? I would prefer to have an ich free tank although it's my understanding that you can get away with having ich in your tank if you keep your water conditions pristine (and I do, Ammonia 0/ Nitrite 0 /Nitrate 5-10 (when it hits 20 I perform a water change))

Right now here is what I have setup:

125 G aquarium / 6ft long
Octo Classic 2K Protein Skimmer (BRS)
Fluval FX 4 Can (I do not know have the room for a sump unfortunately)
120lb of live rock & 3 inch bed of live sand
Reef Breeder Photon-V2 50 LED

Stock:

20 Hermit Crabs
1 Cleaner Shrimp
4 Clown (Ocellaris/1 is a mocha) - I did read after purchasing them that they do better in just a single pair so I am keeping a close eye on these guys.
4 Blue/Green Chromis
1 Bengaii Cardinal
Flame Angel (gets a long great w/ the Coral Beauty) about 3inches / added a week after the CB
Coral Beauty (gets along great w/ the Flame Angel) about 3 inches / added a week before the FA

Coral:
1 Duncan
1 Fruitloop Zoa

Thanks you guys!

Excited to meet the Pittsburgh Marine Club creator tonight at my house!

P.S. - I am new to saltwater fish. I have been up and running nearly 2 months now. It took a little less than a month to turn my Ammonia to Nitrites to Nitrates quickly. The cycle seems to be flourishing and doing really well. Also, I have started to feed my fish only frozen live food (and stopped feeding pellets) after 1 bengaii cardinal died because he was not eating the pellets.

Thanks all and well met - JJ

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

As for your question about Ich... it can really be difficult to tell if you have it in your system. Marine ich is a parasite called Cryptocaryon Irritans. It happens to look almost identical to fresh water Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) so it has kept the same common name. You can read more in it here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

Marine Ich has a fairly defined life cycle. It will feed on the fish for a few days and show up as a white oval spot. Once it is done feeding it drops off and attaches to a hard surface in the tank. It can stay in this cyst stage for a few days up to a few months. Then it hatches and releases a bunch more parasites into the water to start feeding again. You will know you have a problem if you see white spots starting to appear on your fish in a few days up to a month or so.

You can practice an Ich managed system but it does have its challenges. You do need to use high quality food and have high quality water. You also need to have fail safes in place for heaters and filters. A temperature spike can cause a fish to lose its immunity fairly quickly allowing the parasite to thrive. You can read up more on it in the fish disease section of these forums.

Good luck on your reefing adventure and feel free to ask away!

 

[gjustinj]

I will tell you if it has ich tonight.

Not creator, just current president of The Pittsburgh Marine Aquarium Society.

Oh and Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Thank you Jamie! I really appreciate it

 

[gjustinj]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

As for your question about Ich... it can really be difficult to tell if you have it in your system. Marine ich is a parasite called Cryptocaryon Irritans. It happens to look almost identical to fresh water Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) so it has kept the same common name. You can read more in it here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

Marine Ich has a fairly defined life cycle. It will feed on the fish for a few days and show up as a white oval spot. Once it is done feeding it drops off and attaches to a hard surface in the tank. It can stay in this cyst stage for a few days up to a few months. Then it hatches and releases a bunch more parasites into the water to start feeding again. You will know you have a problem if you see white spots starting to appear on your fish in a few days up to a month or so.

You can practice an Ich managed system but it does have its challenges. You do need to use high quality food and have high quality water. You also need to have fail safes in place for heaters and filters. A temperature spike can cause a fish to lose its immunity fairly quickly allowing the parasite to thrive. You can read up more on it in the fish disease section of these forums.

Good luck on your reefing adventure and feel free to ask away!

Thank you Brew12! I am running a tempt of about 82 degrees (parashield requested over 80 but not higher than 84 for the treatment to work). It's my understanding it will not based on what I've read, but it will at least add additional slime coat if it is ich to help with the fish until I can get the QT built properly. I just invested 3K in this hobby in the last couple of months - lol. I have two heaters in the tank one at each end, and it's my understanding that the Octo Classic 2K skimmer will act as a filter, and eventually the cannister can be removed. That may be incorrect information however (still learning).

 

[gjustinj]

Go to Fish Disease Treatment and read the sticky.
Use Google - there are more resources than anyone can tell you.

Hi Dylana,

Yes I have read that sticky Thank you.

 

[Brew12]

Thank you Brew12! I am running a tempt of about 82 degrees (parashield requested over 80 but not higher than 84 for the treatment to work). It's my understanding it will not based on what I've read, but it will at least add additional slime coat if it is ich to help with the fish until I can get the QT built properly. I just invested 3K in this hobby in the last couple of months - lol. I have two heaters in the tank one at each end, and it's my understanding that the Octo Classic 2K skimmer will act as a filter, and eventually the cannister can be removed. That may be incorrect information however (still learning).

You have many options for filtration and a cannister filter will come in handy at times. The heart of your filtration will be your live rock and the nitrifying bacteria that grow in it. Keep good flow in your tank and that will be your primary filter. The skimmer helps remove decaying organics and while they are useful and I wouldn't want to run a system without one, they are still optional. You can control organics by growing algae and water changes if you want. Just so many options..... And be prepared for that. Just because someone is successful with the way they run a system doesn't mean it is the way you have to run your system. There are many paths to success, you just have to find the path that is right for you!

 

[gjustinj]

You have many options for filtration and a cannister filter will come in handy at times. The heart of your filtration will be your live rock and the nitrifying bacteria that grow in it. Keep good flow in your tank and that will be your primary filter. The skimmer helps remove decaying organics and while they are useful and I wouldn't want to run a system without one, they are still optional. You can control organics by growing algae and water changes if you want. Just so many options..... And be prepared for that. Just because someone is successful with the way they run a system doesn't mean it is the way you have to run your system. There are many paths to success, you just have to find the path that is right for you!

I really appreciate that! I feel like I have learned so much and there is still so much to learn. This seems like an endless education through trial and error (hopefully less harmful error). I am doing my best to take everyone's opinions and the articles I read online into consideration every step moving forward, there are a lot of different opinions on this stuff. Especially LFS vs online forums but I am excited to get involved with Jamie's group - I meet him tonight at my house to show him my setup, etc.

 

[Brew12]

Especially LFS vs online forums

Sounds like you are on the right path. Just remember, even R2R is like the rest of the internet and you won't always get the best advice although we do our best. If you don't understand a recommendation that is made you should always question it. Your LFS may be great, or it may not. Plenty of people get horrible advice from their LFS's. You may not know the experience level of the person you are dealing with and they may have "ulterior motivations".

I am excited to get involved with Jamie's group - I meet him tonight at my house to show him my setup, etc.

This is one of the best things you can do. I can't tell you how lucky you are to have an experienced hobbyist like Jamie see your system in person and offer advice. I only wish I had a resource like that available to me. Unfortunately, the local club here shut down before I purchased my tank.

 

[gjustinj]

Sounds like you are on the right path. Just remember, even R2R is like the rest of the internet and you won't always get the best advice although we do our best. If you don't understand a recommendation that is made you should always question it. Your LFS may be great, or it may not. Plenty of people get horrible advice from their LFS's. You may not know the experience level of the person you are dealing with and they may have "ulterior motivations".

This is one of the best things you can do. I can't tell you how lucky you are to have an experienced hobbyist like Jamie see your system in person and offer advice. I only wish I had a resource like that available to me. Unfortunately, the local club here shut down before I purchased my tank.

You can always move to the burgh! Check out my band when you arrive! haha

 

[Maritimer]

Welcome aboard, gjustinj!

Ich spots will stay on the fish for 2-3 days, then drop away to encyst on hard surfaces in the tank. If a spot only appears for a few hours, it's probably sand. Probably. ;Nailbiting

If it is ich (and I'm sure Jaime will set you straight on that!) then it'll be back.

The good news is that between your local group and R2R, you've got a wealth of information at your fingertips!

~Bruce

 

[gjustinj]

Welcome aboard, gjustinj!

Ich spots will stay on the fish for 2-3 days, then drop away to encyst on hard surfaces in the tank. If a spot only appears for a few hours, it's probably sand. Probably. ;Nailbiting

If it is ich (and I'm sure Jaime will set you straight on that!) then it'll be back.

The good news is that between your local group and R2R, you've got a wealth of information at your fingertips!

~Bruce

Thank you!

 

[JaimeAdams]

yeah he has ich.

#reefsquad what do the rest of you think about the possibility of taking the rock and sand out of a newly set-up display tank and then treating the bare tank with copper safe, then running carbon and/or cuprisorb before putting the rock and sand back in?

 

[Brew12]

yeah he has ich.

#reefsquad what do the rest of you think about the possibility of taking the rock and sand out of a newly set-up display tank and then treating the bare tank with copper safe, then running carbon and/or cuprisorb before putting the rock and sand back in?

I'm not a fan of disturbing the substrate that much normally. The fact that it is such a new system does make it a little safer. I'm guess you are thinking about this to avoid taking the tank fallow for 76 days to clear it?

 

[melypr1985]

I dont like treating a display with copper, but I like to play it safe. No matter what you'll need another tank to house the other stuff, so why not just put the fish in the other tank and treat them there?

 

[JaimeAdams]

The tank is new, parameters are good. I went over to his house today. The two angels certainly have crypt. They are active and eating and healthy other than that. I was thinking that sticking a brute in a corner with the rock/sand would be much easier than setting up a QT tank. There are 4 chromis, 4 clowns, 2 dwarf angels. I offered a spare tank, but finding a place to put it might be the main concern, at least a tank large enough to house all of them together. I'm thinking if he decides to take the fish all out for treatment that a 55 or 75 would probably be big enough. Certainly moving forward he is going to set-up a small QT tank, but space is a factor in removing all of the fish for treatment.

 

[Maritimer]

In either case, the rock will have to (assuming it's going to stay wet...) go the entire 76 day fallow period. I would look carefully at any filtration equipment you're using - I'm given to understand that some plastics can absorb copper - and seriously consider running a PolyFilter or CupriSorb between the end of treatment and the return of rock and invertebrates.

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

The tank is new, parameters are good. I went over to his house today. The two angels certainly have crypt. They are active and eating and healthy other than that. I was thinking that sticking a brute in a corner with the rock/sand would be much easier than setting up a QT tank. There are 4 chromis, 4 clowns, 2 dwarf angels. I offered a spare tank, but finding a place to put it might be the main concern, at least a tank large enough to house all of them together. I'm thinking if he decides to take the fish all out for treatment that a 55 or 75 would probably be big enough. Certainly moving forward he is going to set-up a small QT tank, but space is a factor in removing all of the fish for treatment.

I'd like to get @melypr1985 and @Humblefish opinion on this. Any reason not to set up a brute container with 2 or 3 sponge filters and a heater to use as a fish QT? I'm thinking put the fish in it and treat them with copper. Run some bleach through the DT for a few days once the fish are out. Add Prime to break down the chlorine and it should be ready to put the fish back in about 2 1/2 weeks after they come out.

Am I missing something? Too radical or risky with the bleach?

 

[Humblefish]

I prefer using a clear Sterilite container, only because the fish are easier to see in there than a dark Brute trash can.

You can use chlorine to disinfect a tank of ich, but the concentration must be over 60 mg/L for 24 hours to kill all tomonts.

Dosage guide here: http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/dwgwp/DW/chlorinedosageemergencydisinfection.pdf