Ich?

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

Hey guys pretty sure this is ich, this is my first disease in the tank in over a year I do not have a hospital tank but I did make a hospital bucket.

Diagnosis? Treatment? And thoughts

HotRocks · May 16, 2018

It is hard to tell form the pic. Can you post additional pics? That fish may not fare well in a bucket for 30 days of copper. It may work temporarily.

It looks like velvet from what I can see. I can tell you either way you will need to treat the fish in copper or Chloroquine Phosphate for 30 days either way. The determining factor of how fast you need to ramp copper up to the therapeutic level will be based on whether it is ich or velvet.

Do you have copper or CP on hand?

timtim4 · May 16, 2018

BRS TV has a good video on disease and ich is a meager part of the video

timtim4 · May 16, 2018

you can also do fresh water dips

blkhwkz · May 16, 2018

timtim4 said:
you can also do fresh water dips

This would at best give some temporary relief and would need to be followed up with a bath in acriflavin or formalin and treatment with copper or CP (and possibly antibiotics.)

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

HotRocks said:
It is hard to tell form the pic. Can you post additional pics? That fish may not fare well in a bucket for 30 days of copper. It may work temporarily.

It looks like velvet from what I can see. I can tell you either way you will need to treat the fish in copper or Chloroquine Phosphate for 30 days either way. The determining factor of how fast you need to ramp copper up to the therapeutic level will be based on whether it is ich or velvet.

Do you have copper or CP on hand?

I just got back from the LFS with cupramine, API copper test kit and a ammonia gauge. currently the water is at 0.25 for copper. 10 seconds after I dosed he swam up to my face in the bucket, I don't know if he knows my face but it was like having a sick dog, kinda hit me in the feels.

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

Here is a couple more when I had him out

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

Also put some Nori in soaked with garlic, he is not about it

HotRocks · May 16, 2018

Definitely confirms velvet in those pics.

Do you have acriflavine on hand or Ruby reef rally?

Also do you have a ammonia badge? That is a rather large fish for 3 or so gallons of water, with no bio filter present. I am concerned for you in that regard. You definitely don't want the fish exposed to any ammonia on top of everything else it is dealing with. Any registering amount of ammonia at all is toxic.

Read this by @Humblefish it's a very extensive velvet treatment protocol that he has had much success with.
The short version:

5 minute freshwater dip
Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

HotRocks said:
Definitely confirms velvet in those pics.

Do you have acriflavine on hand or Ruby reef rally?

Also do you have a ammonia badge? That is a rather large fish for 3 or so gallons of water, with no bio filter present. I am concerned for you in that regard. You definitely don't want the fish exposed to any ammonia on top of everything else it is dealing with. Any registering amount of ammonia at all is toxic.

Read this by @Humblefish it's a very extensive velvet treatment protocol that he has had much success with.
The short version:

5 minute freshwater dip

Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.

Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.

While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.

Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

So I have I'm in the bucket, yes I just went and bought a badge when I bought the copper, I just rose the level to 0.5, been working on him for the past half hour or so, since I started dosing he has got up off the bottom and is moving in the current

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

It is a male shift set up, but it is the only thing I can do for him as I have no space and my woman would kill me if I bought another tank and half butt set up for this fish

ChadLo · May 16, 2018

chewy tabacca said:
It is a male shift set up, but it is the only thing I can do for him as I have no space and my woman would kill me if I bought another tank and half *** set up for this fish

30 gal or 40 breeder is what i use.

HotRocks · May 16, 2018

chewy tabacca said:
It is a male shift set up, but it is the only thing I can do for him as I have no space and my woman would kill me if I bought another tank and half *** set up for this fish

I get it. Is he the only fish that you had in your DT?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that you could ramp that copper up over a 24-48 hour period, but its done now.

Keep in mind, copper only kills the free swimming stage of parasite, not the parasites attached to the fish. This is where that FW dip, and a bath in RRR or acriflavine are extremely helpful. The dip will remove a lot of the parasites currently attached to the fish. Bath helps prevent secondary infection from parasite insertion wounds.

ChadLo said:
30 gal or 40 breeder is what i use.

I use a 40b or 55.

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

HotRocks said:
I get it. Is he the only fish that you had in your DT?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that you could ramp that copper up over a 24-48 hour period, but its done now.

Keep in mind, copper only kills the free swimming stage of parasite, not the parasites attached to the fish. This is where that FW dip, and a bath in RRR or acriflavine are extremely helpful. The dip will remove a lot of the parasites currently attached to the fish. Bath helps prevent secondary infection from parasite insertion wounds.

I use a 40b or 55.

It is only at 0.5 right now, I have about 20 fish in my DT

HotRocks · May 16, 2018

If you are at .5ppm with cupramine that's it. Stop there. That's fully therapeutic.

Any spots on your other fish? Any flashing or scratching, swimming into power head? If one fish had it, they all need treated. They likely won't show visible symptoms like your tang did, unless you have other tangs. Some tangs have ultra thin slime coat. So they usually will show first.

chewy tabacca · May 16, 2018

HotRocks said:
If you are at .5ppm with cupramine that's it. Stop there. That's fully therapeutic.

Any spots on your other fish? Any flashing or scratching, swimming into power head? If one fish had it, they all need treated. They likely won't show visible symptoms like your tang did, unless you have other tangs. Acanthurus tangs have ultra thin slime coat. So they usually will show first.

This is what I am using and the test kit.... Reading 0.5 ppm, no other fish are showing symptoms, I thought my blue tang would have showed first. My cleaner wrasse isn't doing any overtime work either.