Ick... again...

[TangsRLife]

Ugh. So here's the story. This summer I had a ick outbreak due to some additions of tangs that I didn't QT. I asked here and got help for treatment and I ended up using a 75 gal tank to treat all of my fish with copper. I did this for 3 weeks. I kept them in the tank for 80 days. When I added them back everything was fine. I even set up a 20 gal QT tank and added 1 male anthia. I treated him aswell with copper. A month later, ick again. It's on my only tang (yellow eye kole) and the anthia. They have the spots but they haven't been scratching and losing their appetite. I make sure to feed them plenty of brine shrimp soaked in selcon. At first they seemed stressed and hid from me once and a while but I have been feeding more and they have opened up a lot. They now do look like they've been sprinkled with salt. So. Ow what to do? I really rather not have to tear my tank apart again to QT all of my fish and make it fallow again. Anyone have suggestions? Should I take the anthia and tang out now and QT them for a month with copper?

 

[Oscar47f]

Are they the only fish in the tank? or do you have other tangs? notice any aggression??

 

[TangsRLife]

I have a yellow eye kole, lyretail anthia, a single clownfish, a starry Blenny, and a blue velvet damselfish (he has been a star citizen). I haven't noticed any aggression.

 

[Joey waid]

I have had the same thing happen to me too. They were in copper for thirty days and my main tank fallow for 60 or so days. Then what do you know 1 month later it's back. My thought is while in qt the copper was keeping the ich or velvet suppressed. This go round I'm making sure the copper levels are at max and I put copper with the water if I do a water change.

 

[Reefahholic]

TTM. enough said.

 

[TangsRLife]

TTM?

 

[aquamn1999]

have you added any coral, rock, clean up crew that was not quarantined? Did you use anything in / on the qt tank and the main tank (magnet cleaner, net, etc)? Did you clean the qt tank and not disinfect your hands before cleaning the main tank?

 

[Reefahholic]

TTM?

TANK TRANSFER METHOD.

 

[DLHDesign]

TTM?

Tank Transfer Method
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

TT is probably my favorite QT method

 

[TangsRLife]

I don't QT coral or inverts. But I do a double rinse. I have three containers. One for my coral dip, one to rinse off the dip and one to rinse the rinse. I bleach any equipment that moves to the display tank. And I do wash my hands after working with each tank.

 

[Reefahholic]

I have had the same thing happen to me too. They were in copper for thirty days and my main tank fallow for 60 or so days. Then what do you know 1 month later it's back. My thought is while in qt the copper was keeping the ich or velvet suppressed. This go round I'm making sure the copper levels are at max and I put copper with the water if I do a water change.

Copper is a great drug. The key is to Test Test Test. Make sure you are at the correct level daily. Make sure you don't cut the treatment early.

I personally run copper to get ICH under control and then switch over to TTM most of the time. I don't like to test if I don't have to. I know that 4 transfers later..there's no question about it. The life cycle is stopped, dead, done, period. Simple, effective, and easy.

 

[Joey waid]

I don't QT coral or inverts. But I do a double rinse. I have three containers. One for my coral dip, one to rinse off the dip and one to rinse the rinse. I bleach any equipment that moves to the display tank. And I do wash my hands after working with each tank.

Everything needs to be in qt. Ich can encrust on the corals.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don't QT coral or inverts. But I do a double rinse. I have three containers. One for my coral dip, one to rinse off the dip and one to rinse the rinse. I bleach any equipment that moves to the display tank. And I do wash my hands after working with each tank.

Good practice, but this will not get a cyst. Although rare in my experience, it can and does happen.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Okay I am going to suggest you get a U.V. Sterilizer sized to provide 45,000 micro watts of kill power for the pump you pair it with. It should be obvious that leaving the tank fallow and using a QT did not stop your problems. With proper U.V. you will prevent the parasite population from becomming pathogenic. In other words the parasite population will be low enough that the fish's immune system will be able to fight off the aggressor since the number of free swimming parasites will be reduced by the Sterilizer. I was just viewing a tank in Bangkok where the owner explained how he always lost fish until he put two Eheim Sterilizers into service years ago and it stopped his problem. Give your fish a fighting chance since the "cure" has not provided the "cure". I built many holding systems for aquarium retail stores and they always had much more success with both freshwater and saltwater when using proper U.V. Sterilizers. It worked then and works now. There are many examples of people who use U.V. on these threads but they are quiet about it due to some "expert" saying this or that. In fact the parasite police will decend on my post within a few minutes of me posting this reply. I killed more of my fish in QT than I ever did in a proper display with U.V. That is just my experiance and the experiance of many others on this thread.

Please forget the idea that you can irradicate Ich or any parasite from a natural system. All it takes is one slipping through and the whole QT thing goes right out the window. You have to create a natural system that allows the fish's immune system to win when stressed. At best most of us that have had long term success realize that all you can do is manage parasites and keep them from becomming pathogenic.

I wish you well on your quest for aquarium and fish health.

 

[Joey waid]

Copper is a great drug. The key is to Test Test Test. Make sure you are at the correct level daily. Make sure you don't cut the treatment early.

I personally run copper to get ICH under control and then switch over to TTM most of the time. I don't like to test if I don't have to. I know that 4 transfers later..there's no question about it. The life cycle is stopped, dead, done, period. Simple, effective, and easy.

I am slowly converting to cp. I am trying to figure out what rates work the best. All my qt tanks have rock and sand. I also have a tank with cp and copper, it seems to be the one that's doing the best.

 

[DLHDesign]

How close were/are your tanks? If within 10ft of each other, then it's possible that aerosol transmission occurred. Again; this is likely an uncommon thing.

My guess (and it's just that - a guess) is that your first round of treatment put your active ich into remission, but did not eliminate it. My reading of copper is that you have to walk a fine line with it - strong enough to kill the parasite, but not so strong as to kill the fish. I imagine this would be a hard line to walk for an extended period of time, but I'm sure people do so with success, so it's possible of course. Just seems highly error prone to me.

 

[TangsRLife]

I understand the concept of UV sterilizer but does it matter how big it is or how much water moves through it per day? I have around 140 gal with my tank and sumo. Can I get a small sterilizer with high flow thought it or do I need a big sterilizer?

 

[melypr1985]

I don't QT coral or inverts. But I do a double rinse. I have three containers. One for my coral dip, one to rinse off the dip and one to rinse the rinse.

This right here can introduce ick/velvet into a display. As part of their life cycle these parasites will create a cyst on any hard surface that a coral dip, freshwater dip, ect will not remove. Not even copper can kill them while in this cyst stage. QT everything to be sure these things arn't introduced into the tank.

 

[melypr1985]

I understand the concept of UV sterilizer but does it matter how big it is or how much water moves through it per day? I have around 140 gal with my tank and sumo. Can I get a small sterilizer with high flow thought it or do I need a big sterilizer?

A UV won't cure your fish of ich. It can help you control it and live with it if done properly. There's nothing wrong with using one of course, just wanted to be clear on that one fact.

 

[DLHDesign]

I understand the concept of UV sterilizer but does it matter how big it is or how much water moves through it per day? I have around 140 gal with my tank and sumo. Can I get a small sterilizer with high flow thought it or do I need a big sterilizer?

Size and flow determine exposure time. It takes time for the UV light to have it's impact, so you can't run the water through too fast. And if you don't run enough of your tank water through at the proper rate during the course of the day, the sterilizer may not keep ahead of the stuff it's trying to eliminate.
I'm pretty sure that you need a right-sized (or larger) sterilizer if you want it to do any good.