Ick from live rock?

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slythy

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Is it possible to get ich from live rock? I was going to buy a few lbs to put in my sump to have it seed the tank but not sure I want to do it because of all the bad stuff that can come from it. My LFS i have seen ich in the tanks before and it makes me a bit nervous.
 
Real ocean live rock, or the stuff that sits in bins with water at the LFS?

If the former, it's possible, but highly unlikely. If the latter, it probably has never seen a fish in the system so it's highly unlikely.

No one could say 100% without knowing the origin, and how the rock has been handled until it gets to you.
 
If it comes from a tank of water from the store, yes… it can carry ich. That being said if you aren’t going to run a perfect quarantine system, it probably won’t make a difference in the long run.
 
Is your tank already up and running with inhabitants? Or are you still setting it up?
 
If it comes from a tank of water from the store, yes… it can carry ich. That being said if you aren’t going to run a perfect quarantine system, it probably won’t make a difference in the long run.

I planned on buying quarantined fish from https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/ and running a large UV on my return pump. I could just buy it, seed leave it fallow for 2 months before I get my first fish. Trying to make it the most successful tank I can and avoid headaches.


It doesnt have any water in it yet. Im atleast a month out
 
So the live rock at the LFS probably isn’t real “live rock.” It’s likely just dead rock that’s been sitting in a tank with the community tank water for some time. You can more or less create this from dead rock, bottled bacteria and time. If you want to seed with real live rock, you’ll need it shipped from a specialist company like Tampa bay saltwater, but IMO you definitely don’t need this but it can be cool. I will say, the dangers of ich are way overblown, the majority of people still just run “ich management” despite the impression you get from forums. If you decide you never want to introduce ich, you will need to stay dedicated or it will be a waste. All corals, inverts, rocks, clams, etc… can carry ich so they should all be quarantined too. There is some sticky’s on the subject you should read. I run ich management and don’t have to be so hyper vigilant which is nice. I have several “ich magnet” fish and ich isn’t even something I worry about. If you have more questions don’t hesitate to reach out!
 
If the rock is sitting in the tank with fish that have ich, then it is certainly possible for ich to get in the tank with it. Nothing a fallow period before getting fish (which will give time for the tank to cycle and microfauna to establish) can’t handle!
 
Fish store live rock is often a bad buy. If its in a system with coral or fish, its very likely that the rock has been exposed to disease and pests. LFS live rock is often a hotel for things you don't want, and includes practically none of the cool things actual live rock has. If someone goes with live rock, I would never recommend it from an LFS UNLESS its in an isolated system free of pests (even then I'd argue that there is still risk). Remember, live rock makes things easier for the first year, and a pain going forward if it has pests. Dry rock is the reverse of that.
 
I asked Tampa Bay Saltwater if they have some non premium live rock. I dont need all the fancy sponges and corals that come on them since I would just put it in my sump to seed. Hmm decisions decisions.. My LFS is forsure just rocks in a tub. nothing fancy. I dont know where locally to get anything good
 
I asked Tampa Bay Saltwater if they have some non premium live rock. I dont need all the fancy sponges and corals that come on them since I would just put it in my sump to seed. Hmm decisions decisions.. My LFS is forsure just rocks in a tub. nothing fancy. I dont know where locally to get anything good

The rocks in a tub outside of a system is most likely fine then. When aquabiomics gets some rubble back in, they would be an excellent source since they test for things https://aquabiomics.com/why-is-the-live-reef-rubble-out-of-stock

What sorts of things are you wanting to "seed" the tank with? Snails, corals, etc. will all bring in microbes over time, and there are a variety of bottled bacterias.
 
The rocks in a tub outside of a system is most likely fine then. When aquabiomics gets some rubble back in, they would be an excellent source since they test for things https://aquabiomics.com/why-is-the-live-reef-rubble-out-of-stock

What sorts of things are you wanting to "seed" the tank with? Snails, corals, etc. will all bring in microbes over time, and there are a variety of bottled bacterias.

I don't know I just want to seed it with a bunch of different bacteria's to create a diverse stable environment. Have the bottles gotten better? 20 years ago when I had a salt tank they seemed ok at best but I had real fiji live rock.

Also these tubs are connected to main systems, not a stand alone
 
I don't know I just want to seed it with a bunch of different bacteria's to create a diverse stable environment. Have the bottles gotten better? 20 years ago when I had a salt tank they seemed ok at best but I had real fiji live rock.

Also these tubs are connected to main systems, not a stand alone


There are definitely more varieties. There are also some decent sands like ocean direct, arc reef (I made a post about this as I'd like to learn more), and others that are supposed to bring in some nice diversity.

Some of the bacterias that people I know have had great success early on with dry rock used some such as dr tims waste away and eco balance or pns pro bio (subtrate sauce is their cycling blend).

Again, I think that you will get "live rock" whenever you add corals, snails, crabs, etc.


What you prioritize in rock depends on you. I wanted no lve rock in my current 75. However, I'm gonna start a small <5 gallon tank with ocean live rock and keep nothing but filter feeders.
 
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Ocean harvested aquacultured live rock and ocean harvested live sand will have far more diverse microorganisms than bottle bac. Live sand has different organisms so good to get both.
 
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For the record, greater diversity is in a very general sense a good thing. But bear in mind that it isn't always so good. For instance, consider that a wild harvested product can contain all sorts of pests and pathogens, both bacterial and protozoan, from Vibrio coralliilyticus to Uronema marinum and so on. Is that "extra diversity" beneficial too?

Furthermore, the main point of bottled bacteria is not for diversity per se. In fact, it's actually meant to contain only a few (or even just a single) species because it's used for rather specific purposes.

Think of it this way. Let's just say there is a Species A that is abundant and ecologically important on healthy wild reefs, but is NOT so abundant in most reef tanks. Why would it not be abundant in reef tanks? Because captive conditions favor its competitors such as Species X. Now, you might be able to re-set the microbial community to something closer to Nature by adding a concentrated inoculum of Species A from time to time. In that case, you're just tipping the balance towards a favorable condition, similar to if you were adding any other product to replenish calcium, or trace elements, or whatever. Would this work with live rock rock or sand? Not so much. First, you're not going to just keep adding sand or rock for that specific purpose ad infinitum, unless you want a tank that eventually is filled to the rim with sand and rock. In contrast, you can add as much of a concentrated bottled product as you need to get a desired cell density fast (immediately, actually). But more to the point, if you're adding a "high biodiversity" rock/sand product that is adding both Species A and Species X, then you've not really shifted the balance. In fact, you may not necessarily have added any Species A.

I'm not saying live rock or sand is bad, by the way (though it can be bad, depending on how/where it is collected and how it's stored/handled). As an ecologist by training with a huge interest in aquarium microbiology, I'm all over live rock/sand and appreciate the many beneficial microbes they can bring to the table. My point is that those products, and bottled products, are two distinctly different creatures. Comparing the two is like comparing nori and Reef Roids. They're not mutually exclusive.
 
the majority of people still just run “ich management” despite the impression you get from forums. If you decide you never want to introduce ich, you will need to stay dedicated or it will be a waste. All corals, inverts, rocks, clams, etc… can carry ich so they should all be quarantined too. There is some sticky’s on the subject you should read. I run ich management and don’t have to be so hyper vigilant which is nice. I have several “ich magnet” fish and ich isn’t even something I worry about. If you have more questions don’t hesitate to reach out!
My question now is, why do people bother to quarantine their fish, if many do not quarantine their corals or inverts ?

don’t get me wrong, fish quarantine is necessary as sometimes the fish comes from a stressed out state which debilitates its immune system, thus making it easier for the fish to become unalive, but if it’s for ‘ich prevention’ in a system, doesn’t that seem unlogical?
 

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