ICP-Analysis Experiences

[Skep18]

Has anyone used ICP-ANALYSIS.COM for ICP testing? If so, did you find the results reliable?

I just found out my test was done by randomly checking into the site. I didn't get an email notification or anything, which was the first thing that struck me as odd.

Then my test results came back as my salinity was 38.97ppt. I found this very odd. I have calibration solution and a refractometer as well as an IceCap and my Apex probe. All read right around the 35ppt mark. The refractometer might suggest a little high like 35.5 but almost 39 seems like way different. Logic would suggest my hobby grade tests are inaccurate but multiple hobby grade tests all being equally wrong seems illogical.

I went with ICP-ANALYSIS as they were cheapest but now I'm thinking maybe it might have been a waste. If salinity is that wrong or kinda makes it hard to trust the other parameters...

I'll probably take my water to a LFS and have them check salinity but in the meantime, has anyone else experienced something like this?

 

[Hitman]

I swear I read a post about a person getting odd results from them and Randy chimed in about it. A rep from that company even chimed in a in a way tried to out smart Randy and in my eyes Randy won. It was something about how they test and what can and can’t be tested and they were called out. It was enough to alter my purchase to ATI. I pulled 1 full cup of tank water out and did a full battery of tests with Salifert and Hanna and the left over water was what was used to send to ATI. All my Salifert and Hanna tests were within the margin of error to the ATI results. ATI is the only company the offers free RO water testing I believe as well as 3 day return shipping included. For $39 I feel I got a great deal and results I could you moving forward.

 

[wishntoboutside]

Has anyone used ICP-ANALYSIS.COM for ICP testing? If so, did you find the results reliable?

I just found out my test was done by randomly checking into the site. I didn't get an email notification or anything, which was the first thing that struck me as odd.

Then my test results came back as my salinity was 38.97ppt. I found this very odd. I have calibration solution and a refractometer as well as an IceCap and my Apex probe. All read right around the 35ppt mark. The refractometer might suggest a little high like 35.5 but almost 39 seems like way different. Logic would suggest my hobby grade tests are inaccurate but multiple hobby grade tests all being equally wrong seems illogical.

I went with ICP-ANALYSIS as they were cheapest but now I'm thinking maybe it might have been a waste. If salinity is that wrong or kinda makes it hard to trust the other parameters...

I'll probably take my water to a LFS and have them check salinity but in the meantime, has anyone else experienced something like this?

so your salinity is high and before you even check to see if your refractometer is off you throw a company like this under the bus. I understand your concern but I would double check your own numbers before you say they are wrong. after all they are in the business to test water and assist with solutions.

 

[Skep18]

so your salinity is high and before you even check to see if your refractometer is off you throw a company like this under the bus. I understand your concern but I would double check your own numbers before you say they are wrong. after all they are in the business to test water and assist with solutions.

I suppose interpretation is difficult via text. Not sure I threw anyone under the bus.

Also not sure if you missed it but I've got 3 calibrated units to test in home. They didn't read high. I'm a bit confused as to how much of my post you read.

Thanks for the heads up though. If I sounded offensive, I didn't mean to. I'll get a fourth test just to verify my findings. Maybe that'll be enough? If my equipment is wrong then I'll be sure to give the same feedback that BRS calibration solution, IceCap and Apex solution is off by is 4ppt roughly.

 

[Skep18]

I swear I read a post about a person getting odd results from them and Randy chimed in about it. A rep from that company even chimed in a in a way tried to out smart Randy and in my eyes Randy won. It was something about how they test and what can and can’t be tested and they were called out. It was enough to alter my purchase to ATI. I pulled 1 full cup of tank water out and did a full battery of tests with Salifert and Hanna and the left over water was what was used to send to ATI. All my Salifert and Hanna tests were within the margin of error to the ATI results. ATI is the only company the offers free RO water testing I believe as well as 3 day return shipping included. For $39 I feel I got a great deal and results I could you moving forward.

Since posting I've read a few similar experiences. Not sure any focused on salinity but other parameters. In interested to see if my three agreeing tests can be wrong

 

[Cory]

No experience with this company but they have been put on the spotlight fwiw.

I also had salinity reading 29ppt but through marin labs. After checking witb 3 devices it reads 35ppt. I asked how they measure salinity. They use a refractomer... wow

 

[Raege]

I suppose interpretation is difficult via text. Not sure I threw anyone under the bus.

Also not sure if you missed it but I've got 3 calibrated units to test in home. They didn't read high. I'm a bit confused as to how much of my post you read.

Thanks for the heads up though. If I sounded offensive, I didn't mean to. I'll get a fourth test just to verify my findings. Maybe that'll be enough? If my equipment is wrong then I'll be sure to give the same feedback that BRS calibration solution, IceCap and Apex solution is off by is 4ppt roughly.

FWIW I saw nothing wrong with your post just asking a question of others experiences. Reading your entire post told me you tested salinity a few different ways already and we’re still going to have your lfs check as well to confirm your equipment.
If I got results under same circumstance would also question the other results as well and wonder if they could be trusted or not.
Ive been thinking of getting my water done and appreciate folks posting their expieriences as I do my research to make the best choice for myself so thanks for sharing

 

[Skep18]

No experience with this company but they have been put on the spotlight fwiw.

I also had salinity reading 29ppt but through marin labs. After checking witb 3 devices it reads 35ppt. I asked how they measure salinity. They use a refractomer... wow

Lol. Well that's enlightening. I've messaged ICP-ANALYSIS on their site asking them about their methods. We'll see what they say. I would love to hear the same as above. At least then it could mean their elemental analysis wouldn't be subject to the same tooling as their salinity analysis. That would make the elemental analysis, in my eyes, independent and no reason to be related in suspicion.

FWIW I saw nothing wrong with your post just asking a question of others experiences. Reading your entire post told me you tested salinity a few different ways already and we’re still going to have your lfs check as well to confirm your equipment.
If I got results under same circumstance would also question the other results as well and wonder if they could be trusted or not.
Ive been thinking of getting my water done and appreciate folks posting their expieriences as I do my research to make the best choice for myself so thanks for sharing

Glad to see I wasn't too off my intent. I spent good money on the test. I have every reason to want them to be right. If my tools at home need fixing, I'm glad to do it. I just thought I was using basic analytical thoughts in thinking maybe something seems amiss. No matter who is wrong though, someone/something is incorrect.

 

[User1]

No experience with them. However, I have used ATI's recently and couldn't be happier. Similar to noted above I did a test using my kits and then compared to ATI's. Learned a few things and am happy. In fact more than likely has my tank continues to mature - the upgraded is only 6 months old - I'll be running ATI tests at 3 month intervals to compare. Seems like a great price and I'm hoping to get some during a sale around holiday time. We'll see.

 

[Jamie7907]

None of the ICP testing companies are giving accurate results. For some of the elements being tested ICP shouldn’t even be used as you can get just as accurate results making up your own numbers. The salinity is calculated from the total of all the elements tested which equals salinity. For the OP I wouldn’t trust your apex or the icecap as both are pretty much junk, there are many threads on problems with apex salinity and as for the icecap I’ve tested over 30 units and they are all different out of the box with no way to calibrate. I myself bought one that tested accurately but now it has started to drift with no apparent reason and no way to correct it. The refractometer is the most accurate provided the calibration solution is good, if it is in question @Randy Holmes-Farley has a recipe to make your own though you need an accurate scale. For what it’s worth Hanna is coming out with a pen similar to the icecap but it will be higher quality and ther will be able to calibrate it. Now as for your high salinity if you look at your report certain elements should stand out as being noticeably high, such as magnesium, potassium, calcium and chlorine, three of these are easy to check at home with a hobby grade test kit, some amount of error is to be expected but if results are significantly different there is likely a problem with the ICP test results. Accurate ICP testing can NOT be done for the prices these companies sell their kits for, its just not possible when you know how ICP testing works and the maintenance costs associated.

 

[User1]

None of the ICP testing companies are giving accurate results. For some of the elements being tested ICP shouldn’t even be used as you can get just as accurate results making up your own numbers. The salinity is calculated from the total of all the elements tested which equals salinity. For the OP I wouldn’t trust your apex or the icecap as both are pretty much junk, there are many threads on problems with apex salinity and as for the icecap I’ve tested over 30 units and they are all different out of the box with no way to calibrate. I myself bought one that tested accurately but now it has started to drift with no apparent reason and no way to correct it. The refractometer is the most accurate provided the calibration solution is good, if it is in question @Randy Holmes-Farley has a recipe to make your own though you need an accurate scale. For what it’s worth Hanna is coming out with a pen similar to the icecap but it will be higher quality and ther will be able to calibrate it. Now as for your high salinity if you look at your report certain elements should stand out as being noticeably high, such as magnesium, potassium, calcium and chlorine, three of these are easy to check at home with a hobby grade test kit, some amount of error is to be expected but if results are significantly different there is likely a problem with the ICP test results. Accurate ICP testing can NOT be done for the prices these companies sell their kits for, its just not possible when you know how ICP testing works and the maintenance costs associated.

Interesting comment - I would be interested in more information on the none of the ICP testing companies are giving accurate results. Seems like more and more people are using them for points of reference. If they are not accurate then a lot of bad things could start being reported. In my case my salinity was spot on. ATI reported low. My Milwaukee digital refractor was reporting a different number similar to what my Apex monitor was reporting. Once I recalibrated it and used calibration fluid to check, it was fine and matching ATI's numbers.

Also my Nitrate and Phosphate numbers aligned with my home test kits. I can't say much about the other numbers but for what I was using it the numbers aligned with what I expected and actually identified a issue with my Salinity. Which in turn has suggested by folks here with using calibration fluid which I never thought of.

 

[Skep18]

Well my Red Sea Pro kit for magnesium must be bad too. I've been testing pretty high magnesium even with pretty new tank water. Just confirmed my kit reads 1530ppm consistently. My ICP measured 1318ppm. I just bought a Salifert kit to see if it'll read differently. I had suspected odd magnesium readings were off already though as high readings freshly mixed seemed suspect. I will be pleased if Salifert agrees with ICP.

My Calcium test results were close between the Red Sea and the ICP. That's reassuring.

EDIT: Or I could be mixing my salinity too high and my magnesium test kit might be right and my calcium test kit would be wrong! Oh the suspense!

 

[Skep18]

FWIW, I've still heard nothing back from the company regarding my direct inquiry. I've not even heard anything telling me my test was done.

 

[Skep18]

Got a response yesterday after a week...

Hello,
We are waiting for the developer to figure out why notifications are not going out. There should be notifications.
As far as Salinity, the refractometers are not going to figure elements such as oxygen that is attached to the phosphate and sulfate ions in the water. We total up all of the elements and convert a ppm to a ppt, and P and S are components of PO4 and Sulphate SO4. There are several aspects that affect your salinity that your home based refractometers do not look at, and ICP looks at everything.

I guess I feel better that my household measuring devices are expected to be wrong... I trust the hobby grade units are what the hobby has correlated to so they are probably more useful? Idk what good a new calculation of salinity is if people never typically correlated success to it, at least not yet.

I also got my Salifert test in. It tested lower than Red Sea but still higher than ICP. Which one of the three is right? Lol. Literally have no idea...

Mg tests:
RedSea - 1560ppm
Salifert - 1425ppm
ICP - 1318ppm

 

[Hitman]

I’ve came to trust the Salifert for MG. I hope your Red Sea is wrong as 1500 ppm will kill LPS and Anemones I was told.

 

[Skep18]

I’ve came to trust the Salifert for MG. I hope your Red Sea is wrong as 1500 ppm will kill LPS and Anemones I was told.

Yea, I've never dosed Magnesium yet. It's just fresh mixed RedSea Blue bucket.

 

[JimWelsh]

As far as Salinity, the refractometers are not going to figure elements such as oxygen that is attached to the phosphate and sulfate ions in the water. We total up all of the elements and convert a ppm to a ppt, and P and S are components of PO4 and Sulphate SO4. There are several aspects that affect your salinity that your home based refractometers do not look at, and ICP looks at everything.

This makes no sense at all. I understand the part about totaling up all the elements to calculate salinity (I've previously shared a spreadsheet for doing so), but them saying that refractometers can't see sulfate or the oxygen atoms that are a part of the sulfate ion is just nonsense. I would trust your trio of calibrated refractometer, IceCap, & Apex conductivity probe. Would you be willing to share a link to your test results?

 

[Skep18]

This makes no sense at all. I understand the part about totaling up all the elements to calculate salinity (I've previously shared a spreadsheet for doing so), but them saying that refractometers can't see sulfate or the oxygen atoms that are a part of the sulfate ion is just nonsense. I would trust your trio of calibrated refractometer, IceCap, & Apex conductivity probe. Would you be willing to share a link to your test results?

Yea, when I get to a PC I will upload a copy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This makes no sense at all. I understand the part about totaling up all the elements to calculate salinity (I've previously shared a spreadsheet for doing so), but them saying that refractometers can't see sulfate or the oxygen atoms that are a part of the sulfate ion is just nonsense. I would trust your trio of calibrated refractometer, IceCap, & Apex conductivity probe. Would you be willing to share a link to your test results?

Not only is the refractometer part ridiculous, that ICP "measures everything" part is not correct either. It cannot (in normal use) and does not, quantify hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen. The very same thing (with respect to oxygen) that it says a refractometer cannot do.

 

[Skep18]

Not only is the refractometer part ridiculous, that ICP "measures everything" part is not correct either. It cannot (in normal use) and does not, quantify hydrogen, oxygen, or nitrogen. The very same thing (with respect to oxygen) that it says a refractometer cannot do.

Thanks for your input! Always good to hear from someone with the right background on this.

Also, tools are typically useful as they are correlated to a calibrated value. It seems 35ppm (or whatever your favorite salinity is) as measured on a refractometer has been correlated to people's success in reef keeping. With that ICP input I'm left wondering, why are you providing these numbers? If it's not correlated to anything useful, it kinda seems worthless... Or worse, misleading.