ICP report from ICP-Analysis

HolisticBear · Mar 30, 2017

@Reefbuilder recently posted that ICP-Analysis was now offering ICP test reports from Colorado. You can get 4 tests for $100. I just got back my first report and I'm including it so others can see what you get.

I have a new bucket of AF Reef Salt and was measuring high Ca + Mg, so I was really curious to view the report. Using the online calculator to determine salinity via a Triton report, I measured 34.8 (my target was 35). Compared to normal seawater, my Ca + Mg are high, while S, Na, P, Sr, and K are lower. I was measuring 520/1530 on Salifert, so I basically measured 1 drop extra than ICP shows. One step too far on my color change

Having a ICP report of my RO water would be helpful. I've included the included AF assurance report. Mg/Ca will increase from 34 to 35, but 1350 - 1492 and 410 - 510 seems a bit much.

2una · Mar 30, 2017

They really should stop wasting paper cos that's all it is.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 31, 2017

MrMichael said:
[
Having a ICP report of my RO water would be helpful. I've included the included AF assurance report. Mg/Ca will increase from 34 to 35, but 1350 - 1492 and 410 - 510 seems a bit much.

Raising salinity from 34.000 to 35.000 ppt will raise 1350 ppm magnesium to 1390 ppm.

But if that 34 is really 33.6 and the 35 is 35.4, then the salinity rise would boost 1350 ppm to 1422 ppm.

HolisticBear · Mar 31, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Raising salinity from 34.000 to 35.000 ppt will raise 1350 ppm magnesium to 1390 ppm.

But if that 34 is really 33.6 and the 35 is 35.4, then the salinity rise would boost 1350 ppm to 1422 ppm.

Thanks Randy. Using the online salinity calculator for Triton reports, my ICP-Analysis comes out 34.8. But if that calculator doesn't work for this report, and my salinity is actually > 35.4 (ICP says Mg 1492) then salinity explains a good part (i.e. dropping their benchmark salinity down to 33.0). I was hoping salinity would explain everything.

I don't know if I can trust this ICP report (Sr and P are near 0), but the ICP report seems to imply that Mg + Ca are little high, while Na, Sr, K are low.

Initially the ICP report seemed right, since I expected high 500+ Ca/ 1500+ Mg at 35ppt. But the lab report could be wrong and the mix is only slightly high Ca/Mg and the salinity is actually 35-36.

My gut reaction is that I want to change salts.

K100286 · Mar 31, 2017

How many elements do they test. Is SN(tin) one?

HolisticBear · Mar 31, 2017

K100286 said:
How many elements do they test. Is SN(tin) one?

29, no Sn (Tin). I attached the report, look at the PDF in post #1. This service is new, so it's unclear how the quality compares to Triton.

K100286 · Mar 31, 2017

Too bad no tin. Seems a lot of tests from trition are showing high levels of it.

jason2459 · Apr 1, 2017

Thought I posted this in this thread the other night but guess not.

I didn't really look at the numbers to hard yet but didn't like seeing 0 values or that they are listed in ppm.

HolisticBear · Apr 1, 2017

jason2459 said:
Thought I posted this in this thread the other night but guess not.

I didn't really look at the numbers to hard yet but didn't like seeing 0 values or that they are listed in ppm.

@120Reefer posted his ICP report (post 393) today and he also shows Sr near zero. The gotcha is that we are both using AF reef salt, yet given the importance of Sr, I'm wondering if it is a testing error. My report was freshly made AF reef salt with a new RODI, so near 0 for some elements seems reasonable. @120reefkeeper showed measurable values for Se/Si, where I showed near 0. I'll use up the rest of the reports I paid for, but I will probably use Triton until more reviews come in.

jason2459 · Apr 1, 2017

You could compare your results to my saltmix tests by Triton and Aquaforest ICP-OES.

It's comparable to what was tested for Aquaforest sea salt. S was also very low on some of their salts as well. Of all the brands I've tested so far that is the one brand I could not recommend but doesn't mean it couldn't work.

That said I'm not sure how important Sr is. The low S would or does concern me more.

jason2459 · Apr 1, 2017

Here is the thread I was referring to.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/saltmix-parameters-bring-on-the-test-results.233233/

120reefkeeper · Apr 1, 2017

MrMichael said:
@120Reefer posted his ICP report (post 393) today and he also shows Sr near zero. The gotcha is that we are both using AF reef salt, yet given the importance of Sr, I'm wondering if it is a testing error. My report was freshly made AF reef salt with a new RODI, so near 0 for some elements seems reasonable. @120reefkeeper showed measurable values for Se/Si, where I showed near 0. I'll use up the rest of the reports I paid for, but I will probably use Triton until more reviews come in.

I'd like to make just a few corrections to this post and in no way is this @MrMichael fault.

1. I don't use Reef salt. I use the Probiotic Reef salt.

2. This was not a fresh batch. It was taken directly from my tank just before a water change.

3. I have since changed RODI filters. I was having a few issues with TDS so it is what it is. [emoji6]

I am also on the fence with this testing report but I'm sure I'll use up the rest of mine also.

I have yet to have any issues with the AF salts. I've not had high magnesium, or low alkalinity or any other issues. [emoji4]

jason2459 · Apr 1, 2017

jason2459 said:
Thought I posted this in this thread the other night but guess not.

I didn't really look at the numbers to hard yet but didn't like seeing 0 values or that they are listed in ppm.

To clarify I don't like seeing 0 values as they are almost certainly not 0 just below the limits of detection (LOD) which many elements usually are in seawater.

A better listed value could be any number of things

< LOD
LOD
Low
Lo
ND for not detectable
Etc

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 2, 2017

MrMichael said:
posted his ICP report (post 393) today and he also shows Sr near zero. The gotcha is that we are both using AF reef salt, yet given the importance of Sr, I'm wondering if it is a testing error.

I actually don't consider Sr important at all, but getting the value correct would certainly be desirable for many reefers.

jason2459 · Apr 2, 2017

Completely anecdotal but my goniopora has been growing really well since dosing some Kent Sr/Mo.

Contents:
Deionized Water, and strontium, magnesium, potassium and molybdenum salts

So, I have no idea if it's just a placebo effect and I believe it's better growth before and after. Or if there is better growth after dosing the product if it's the Mg, K, Sr, or Mo as the cause. I have been dosing a very minor amount into my new saltmix as my Mo amount was quite low according to Triton, if accurate, consistently along with Sr slightly. I also had read reports of goni's liking Mo so figured why not try it out. I was low according to ICP-OES testing and I would just add a tiny amount which subsequent tests showed it right about in range of their "optimal" numbers so my math was right at least in how much I should add to increase to their ideal numbers.

Long story short Sr is only important if you can't tell the difference between it and Ca or you just like reading up on elements.

http://weppi.gtk.fi/publ/foregsatlas/text/Sr.pdf

GoVols · Apr 3, 2017

@MrMichael

This is my problem with the AF reef salt and if you look at the BRS reviews coming in AF has done nothing!
Their QC sheet is absolute garbage to a certain bucket or box. I used it for 9 months when it first hit the US through Salty Supply and Amazon.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2605639

@120reefkeeper
No offense.

120reefkeeper · Apr 3, 2017

GoVols said:
@MrMichael

This is my problem with the AF reef salt and if you look at the BRS reviews coming in AF has done nothing!
Their QC sheet is absolute garbage to a certain bucket or box. I used it for 9 months when it first hit the US through Salty Supply and Amazon.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2605639

@120reefkeeper
No offense.

So my question still stands. Do you still use Aquaforest Reef Salt??

GoVols · Apr 3, 2017

120reefkeeper said:
So my question still stands. Do you still use Aquaforest Reef Salt??

lol,
Why do you want to know and why does it matter?

That thread and the new BRS reviews speak for themselves.

120reefkeeper · Apr 3, 2017

GoVols said:
lol,
Why do you want to know and why does it matter?

That thread and the new BRS reviews speak for themselves.

Well it matters because not everyone that uses AF Reef Salt has had issues. I think it deserves an explanation.

The reviews that your pointing to are but a handful of people out of thousands upon thousands that have successfully used the AF Reef salt.

Now that being said AF completely stands behind their products and works with customers who have had issues.

If you still use AF Reef salt then I assure you they will work with you and stand behind their products, QC procedures ,and will resolve any issue you have.

If you are no longer an AF customer then you can send me a PM as to why with a detailed explanation and I will assure that your issues will be addressed at the highest level.

I know that AF will always stand behind their products 100% and they also stand behind their customers 100%.

GoVols · Apr 3, 2017

120reefkeeper said:
Well it matters because not everyone that uses AF Reef Salt has had issues. I think it deserves an explanation.

The reviews that your pointing to are but a handful of people out of thousands upon thousands that have successfully used the AF Reef salt.

Now that being said AF completely stands behind their products and works with customers who have had issues.

If you still use AF Reef salt then I assure you they will work with you and stand behind their products, QC procedures ,and will resolve any issue you have.

If you are no longer an AF customer then you can send me a PM as to why with a detailed explanation and I will assure that your issues will be addressed at the highest level.

I know that AF will always stand behind their products 100% and they also stand behind their customers 100%.

Thank you!

I'll stand by my last post to AF Poland on that thread. So I'm watching the reviews to see if AF stands behind their last statement.
To me the BRS bad reviews are a more than a handful of people to the good reviews and I'm sorry that you don't see it that way.

I love Comp 1+ 2+ 3+ and always give it high praise. I've also took the time to teach reefers how to lock it in for 3 even doses.

If AF fixes their reef salt parameter issues as they stated or stops putting in the QC sheets, then I'll happily stop making it a issue.
If they stand behind they're product then why did Salty Supply or Deep Water never ask me for a sample or replacement bucket?
The only thing they told me was AF must have put Sea Salt in Reef Salt buckets and all we can do is email Poland. (Twice)

I don't want to have to use customer service for a bad bucket. I used "Salinity" for a long time and it always mixed within reason to their QC sticker on the side of their buckets and to send a sample to Poland is crazy, which is what they were telling us on that thread.

AF Poland needs to step up and say starting with these new batch #'s the issue has been resolved. My problem is not with the US support team.

I have an issue with AF Poland and their QC sheets to the "Reef Salt" mix and I have the right to give other reefers a heads up.

Regards, GoVols