ICP results - extremely high barium?

[TheBiochemist]

@TheBiochemist Cool glad you found this. I'm thinking now it might of started its life out as BaSO4. Your .2230mg/L almost matches its solubility in plain water. Gives it more chemical resistance and a filler in plastics to dampen vibration. In presence of other anions it can be more soluble. How many liters is your tank? If from metal maybe a oxide to hydroxide form. The Al and zn from the metal parts. I try to get ceramic impeller shafts. Some of the metal ones I replace with grade 2 titanium rods. It galls up at first but usually smooths itself out. Guess not much one can do about the plastic parts in that case.

Thanks for your reply. My tank is about 140 L. Based on your comment and after reading few papers another idea came to my mind. You are absolutely right that BaSO4 is commonly used as a filler in various plastics. I also found that it is sometimes used to improve the properties of polypropylene (PP). I checked my bucket for saltwater prep and it has a symbol showing 5-PP, so its definitely made from PP. I purchased it as a food-approved bucket, but I found that BaSO4 is commonly uzlilized for this type of plastics used in food industry with no health concerns. Thus, is there a chance that high Ba might be caused by the storage of RO/DI and prep of saltwater in such type of bucket? Could RO/DI “dissolve” the surface of my bucket? If yes, what type of plastics anybody uses for this purpose? Any insights highly appreciated.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Thanks for your reply. My tank is about 140 L. Based on your comment and after reading few papers another idea came to my mind. You are absolutely right that BaSO4 is commonly used as a filler in various plastics. I also found that it is sometimes used to improve the properties of polypropylene (PP). I checked my bucket for saltwater prep and it has a symbol showing 5-PP, so its definitely made from PP. I purchased it as a food-approved bucket, but I found that BaSO4 is commonly uzlilized for this type of plastics used in food industry with no health concerns. Thus, is there a chance that high Ba might be caused by the storage of RO/DI and prep of saltwater in such type of bucket? Could RO/DI “dissolve” the surface of my bucket? If yes, what type of plastics anybody uses for this purpose? Any insights highly appreciated.

That is over 31 grams of BaSO4 if it is it. Very surprising if it is from one impeller. I think food grade would limit this. I guess it would also depend on how long, and what type water is in bucket. A lot of buckets dope titanium dioxide into the plastic for similar reasons. Also a lot of people on here use buckets, plastic housed pumps, and don't have high Ba. I like to use HDPE plastics. I guess that could have similar results though. Cant say anything for certain in that regard. Maybe check for some other degraded sources too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could RO/DI “dissolve” the surface of my bucket? If yes, what type of plastics anybody uses for this purpose? Any insights highly appreciated.

That is unlikely, IMO, unless the can is brand new and unrinsed.

Any barium sulfate particle exposed to the water might dissolve, but that would not be many and would be gone after rinsing once or twice.

Polypropylene is an extremely hydrophobic polymer, and neither barium nor sulfate will be able to diffuse through it at any detectable rate. Same for the particulates: they cannot move.

Thus, any ionic materials (such as barium sulfate) buried in the polypropylene are there to stay.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That is over 31 grams of BaSO4 if it is it.

31 mg of barium is present in his water, not grams.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Your right my mistake.

 

[TheBiochemist]

Guys, many thanks. Regarding the water storage: I produce RO/DI on a kind of continual basis, so there is always some RO/DI in the bucket. Every Friday, I use the same bucket for saltwater prep for water change. I dont mix the salt more than 2 h, so the saltwater never stays there for a long time. After WC, I rinse the bucket with tap water, then with RO/DI water and then I start to refill it with RO/DI.

From Randy´s reply I understood that if there is some BaSO4 eager to be released to the water, it might be depleted after few washes. I have used this bucket for approx. 5 months, so it definitely should be thoroughly rinsed. Hence, I will keep on using the bucket and if the next ICP will reveal similar concentration of Ba, I will most likely shift to HDPE plastics and continue with my investigation.:/

 

[DeputyDog95]

What is an acceptable high range for Barium? I just had an ICP test and saw a large jump in my already mildly elevated barium.

It went to 0.051 mg/L from 0.032 mg/L in about two months. The ICP testing center considers anything over .03 potentially toxic.

I'm using RS blue bucket salt, RS liquid Ca and Alk, and Red Sea trace colors.

Reached out to my rep at RS and he said there is no Barium in the trace colors products, but there is Barium in their liquid Ca.

Again, no significant changes.... Should I be concerned?

The ICP operator is a friend of mine (fortunate to have a local testing center) and he said frozen food can contribute to elevated Barium readings. And in retrospect, I have been feeding a lot more frozen to keep my nutrients up.

I continue to have elevated aluminum as well. Can't figure that one out either. I had read that marine pure blocks can leach Al back into the water, but removing them hasn't really made a difference.


Thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What is an acceptable high range for Barium? I just had an ICP test and saw a large jump in my already mildly elevated barium.

It went to 0.051 mg/L from 0.032 mg/L in about two months. The ICP testing center considers anything over .03 potentially toxic.

I'm using RS blue bucket salt, RS liquid Ca and Alk, and Red Sea trace colors.

Reached out to my rep at RS and he said there is no Barium in the trace colors products, but there is Barium in their liquid Ca.

Again, no significant changes.... Should I be concerned?

The ICP operator is a friend of mine (fortunate to have a local testing center) and he said frozen food can contribute to elevated Barium readings. And in retrospect, I have been feeding a lot more frozen to keep my nutrients up.

I continue to have elevated aluminum as well. Can't figure that one out either. I had read that marine pure blocks can leach Al back into the water, but removing them hasn't really made a difference.


Thoughts?

I would not be concerned about 50 ppb barium. That value is not very high and barium is not particularly toxic even at much higher levels.

 

[DeputyDog95]

I would not be concerned about 50 ppb barium. That value is not very high and barium is not particularly toxic even at much higher levels.

Thanks, Randy.