ICP Test results are back!

[PacoPetty]

My results are back and from what I can tell I need to address my Iodine and my sulfur levels. Any assistance or advice you have for me will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In general, I'm not a fan of this company.

Are there any apparent issues with the tank? Diatoms?

If we accept the values as accurate...

Aluminum is getting up there. Are you using any white media?

I don't think iodine is typically useful, but you might experiment with dosing iodide.

 

[725196]

Good morning. I use ICP analysis on the first of every month. It saved my tank last year with an issues no one could figure out.

when it comes to iodine you can dose it, however, it is near impossible to accurately test for it with a home test kit. So if you do dose, dose less than whatyou think you should. Doing regulated changes are better for iodine in the long run, UNLESS, you are willing to do regular, consistent and often ICP testing. This would also help with sulfur in the tank.

As for sulfur issues, here is a link on R2R that goes into detail on the issue.

Sulphur in the reefaquarium

Sulphur must have been very important in forming the oceans as there is a lot of it, mostly present as sulphate. But this sulphate content seems not to be very important for keeping reef aquaria as salt mixes do vary a lot in sulphate content. https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/ Elemental...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Good morning. I use ICP analysis on the first of every month. It saved my tank last year with an issues no one could figure out.

What was the issue?

 

[725196]

What was the issue?

I was having bad coral recession and more sensitive fish were dying. I called BRS and went to my LFS. I tested my water and had it tested in 2 different LFSs. All of this and no answers. Everything looked good on tests but the tank was not good. I was ready to throw in the towel. (I have 20+ years SW experience, which 10+ is reef and another 15 years of FW experience on top of that.) Then someone told me to try an icp and I did. I sent it in and when the results came in they personally called me to tell me the issues I was having is with elevated copper and aluminum. I never have used copper and could not fog out where it would have come from. After an exhaustive search I found a copper screw in the overflow. I have no idea how it got there. I was then able to start working on that issue. As for the aluminum, it turned out the salt brand I was using had a bad batch with high levels of aluminum in it. So for both I used metal absorbing media and large water changes. It worked. I credit the ICP for informing me of the issues.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

. I never have used copper and could not fog out where it would have come from. After an exhaustive search I found a copper screw in the overflow.

Wow, nice to have that one figured out.

 

[BZOFIQ]

After an exhaustive search I found a copper screw in the overflow.

I hope somebody wasnt trying to sabotage your tank. Glad you found it.

 

[ScottR]

Every time I read these, iodine is low. Not an expert but iodine does seem to precipitate out fast. Wonder if Randy can weigh in as he has countless times.

 

[725196]

I hope somebody wasn't trying to sabotage your tank. Glad you found it.

I doubt it. It is in my home and I can't imagine a family member doing this. I am at a loss as to where it came from but I have to assume some freak incident... I can't remember anyone else here during them time. I.e. contractors, cleaners etc. It also has not come back so here is to hoping it really was a freak thing.

Since then I rely on ICP tests to tell me if something maybe amiss I cannot see or test for myself. I test a full battery every week to monitor. I did try the Triton but it took 19 days from mailing the samples to getting results. To me that is just too long a time. The ICP analysis I send via priority mail and get the results in 5-7 days. To me that is worth it.

 

[Adamantium]

In general, I'm not a fan of this company.

Can I ask why? Inaccurate results?

I recently ordered a two pack of these tests haha

 

[PacoPetty]

In general, I'm not a fan of this company.

Are there any apparent issues with the tank? Diatoms?

If we accept the values as accurate...

Aluminum is getting up there. Are you using any white media?

I don't think iodine is typically useful, but you might experiment with dosing iodide.

No issues with the tank. I use a small bag of Purigen under the filter floss in the second chamber. Thanks for the iodide tip!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Every time I read these, iodine is low. Not an expert but iodine does seem to precipitate out fast. Wonder if Randy can weigh in as he has countless times.

Iodine is depleted rapidly by algae and possibly other organisms. In my tank, it depleted in a few days from NSW levels to none detected. It also did not appear to do anything useful since when I stopped as an experiment, nothing noticeable changed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Can I ask why? Inaccurate results?

I recently ordered a two pack of these tests haha

Lack of knowledge on their part when they participated in this forum, and some clearly inaccurate results.

here's a thread where they participated:

ICP testing

https://www.icp-analysis.com/ Is this a good thing? Based in Colorado. I've never been into much testing but I would do this. $100 for five tests. Comments please.

www.reef2reef.com

They said this about alkalinity (which I noted there is "nonsensical crap"):

" I know, I did not mention alkalinity. Alkalinity is not an element. It is a term used when we calculate how stable our pH is, i.e. the buffer. The buffer is calculated from compounds containing Ca and a hydroxide compound (OH). Since OH is a compound, ICP-OES will not perform the calculation of alkalinity."

 

[Adamantium]

Lack of knowledge on their part when they participated in this forum, and some clearly inaccurate results.

here's a thread where they participated:

ICP testing

https://www.icp-analysis.com/ Is this a good thing? Based in Colorado. I've never been into much testing but I would do this. $100 for five tests. Comments please.

www.reef2reef.com

They said this about alkalinity (which I noted there is "nonsensical crap"):

" I know, I did not mention alkalinity. Alkalinity is not an element. It is a term used when we calculate how stable our pH is, i.e. the buffer. The buffer is calculated from compounds containing Ca and a hydroxide compound (OH). Since OH is a compound, ICP-OES will not perform the calculation of alkalinity."

Thanks for the reply.

Forgive my ignorance, but you know, that’s always confused me. Is alkalinity an element?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the reply.

Forgive my ignorance, but you know, that’s always confused me. Is alkalinity an element?

We care about it because it is mostly a measure of bicarbonate that is not easy to test for directly. Here's a discussion about what it actually is from one of my article

Chemistry and the Aquarium: What is Alkalinity?

Randy provides an overview of alkalinity as to why it's important, how it's measured, and how can it be tested.

reefs.com

Chemical Nature of Alkalinity
Based on the definition of total alkalinity given above, it is clear that anything that absorbs protons when the pH is dropped from normal levels to about 4-5 will be counted toward alkalinity. In seawater there are a variety of things that contribute, and in reef tanks the list is even longer. Equation 3 is the defining equation for total alkalinity in normal seawater.

TA = [HCO3–] + 2[CO3--] + [B(OH)4–] + [OH–] + [Si(OH)3O–] + [MgOH+] + [HPO4--] + 2[PO4---] – [H+]

The reason for the 2 in front of the carbonate and phosphate concentrations is that they take up two protons as the pH is dropped down to pH 4. All of the other ions just take up a single proton (except protons themselves which must be subtracted).

The main chemical species that contribute to alkalinity in seawater (and the reason it is useful to reefkeepers) are bicarbonate and carbonate (equations 1 and 2). The table below (from “Chemical Oceanography” by Frank Millero; 1996) shows the contribution to alkalinity from the major contributors in seawater at pH 8. If you start at higher pH, the relative contribution of bicarbonate will go down relative the others.

Chemical Species	Relative Contribution To Alkalinity
HCO3– (bicarbonate)	89.8
CO3— (carbonate)	6.7
B(OH)4– (borate)	2.9
SiO(OH)3– (silicate)	0.2
MgOH+ (magnesium monohydroxylate)	0.1
OH– (hydroxide)	0.1
HPO4— and PO4— (phosphate)	0.1

Other species can also contribute measurably to alkalinity in seawater in certain situations, such as anoxic regions. These would include NH4+ and HS– .

 

[PacoPetty]

We care about it because it is mostly a measure of bicarbonate that is not easy to test for directly. Here's a discussion about what it actually is from one of my article

Chemistry and the Aquarium: What is Alkalinity?

Randy provides an overview of alkalinity as to why it's important, how it's measured, and how can it be tested.

reefs.com

Chemical Nature of Alkalinity
Based on the definition of total alkalinity given above, it is clear that anything that absorbs protons when the pH is dropped from normal levels to about 4-5 will be counted toward alkalinity. In seawater there are a variety of things that contribute, and in reef tanks the list is even longer. Equation 3 is the defining equation for total alkalinity in normal seawater.

TA = [HCO3–] + 2[CO3--] + [B(OH)4–] + [OH–] + [Si(OH)3O–] + [MgOH+] + [HPO4--] + 2[PO4---] – [H+]

The reason for the 2 in front of the carbonate and phosphate concentrations is that they take up two protons as the pH is dropped down to pH 4. All of the other ions just take up a single proton (except protons themselves which must be subtracted).

The main chemical species that contribute to alkalinity in seawater (and the reason it is useful to reefkeepers) are bicarbonate and carbonate (equations 1 and 2). The table below (from “Chemical Oceanography” by Frank Millero; 1996) shows the contribution to alkalinity from the major contributors in seawater at pH 8. If you start at higher pH, the relative contribution of bicarbonate will go down relative the others.

Chemical Species	Relative Contribution To Alkalinity
HCO3– (bicarbonate)	89.8
CO3— (carbonate)	6.7
B(OH)4– (borate)	2.9
SiO(OH)3– (silicate)	0.2
MgOH+ (magnesium monohydroxylate)	0.1
OH– (hydroxide)	0.1
HPO4— and PO4— (phosphate)	0.1

Other species can also contribute measurably to alkalinity in seawater in certain situations, such as anoxic regions. These would include NH4+ and HS– .

I was going to say the same thing...