ICP test results vs. Hobby Grade!!!

[ReefHomieJon]

Triton/ Ati water test comparison

I had a Triton test laying around and saw an Ati at my lfs and thought I would send them both in to see what, if anything, would be the difference. My first impressions seem to lean toward the Ati. They give a third vial to test your RO water along with the 2 tank vials. Big plus to help...

www.reef2reef.com

Here is a comparison I did between triton and ati. Although close, you can see even between labs there are big enough differences to question their pinpoint accuracy. Close enough to see trends which I think is the main purpose of any testing including hobby grade.

Good point

 

[madweazl]

Looking at my results for calcium and magnesium(first post, you’d trust the hobby grade test results over “icp-analysis.com”?
I’m just trying to figure out which results to rely more on.

I've seen a number of posts outlining questionable results from members whom I trust (professionals, chemists, doctors, etc.). When I'm skeptical of my own results, I'll get a sanity check from ATI or Triton but those are the only two I use personally.

 

[Lousybreed]

I am a big picture kind of person.
I don’t really care about all the small elements.
I care about alk/cal/magnesium and those are
“Very accurate” From icp test.
I try to keep it as simple as possible.
Icp test are now done in the USA
And for as little as $20

I disagree with you. I pressed several major ICP companies to show me their validation documents, their calibration protocol, etc. The German companies provided me with the documentation I was hoping for. The American ones that i poked (did not do them all) could not show me these docs. Without validation and calibration, the numbers they spit out are worthless.

 

[joseserrano]

I disagree with you. I pressed several major ICP companies to show me their validation documents, their calibration protocol, etc. The German companies provided me with the documentation I was hoping for. The American ones that i poked (did not do them all) could not show me these docs. Without validation and calibration, the numbers they spit out are worthless.

Can you share who did and didn't?

 

[Amado]

I disagree with you. I pressed several major ICP companies to show me their validation documents, their calibration protocol, etc. The German companies provided me with the documentation I was hoping for. The American ones that i poked (did not do them all) could not show me these docs. Without validation and calibration, the numbers they spit out are worthless.

Yeah I call bull **** let’s see the email you send the company. Or a picture of the email/ letter they send you .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Icp test are very accurate.
The problem with “hobby grade tests kit”
Is the user. A lot of people do the test wrong. Getting a reefbot or auto tester takes the human out of the equation.

No they are not necessarily accurate. Testing seawater is not simple ICP. There are many interferences possible in such a broad mixture of chemicals at drastically different concentrations.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

ICP-analysis.com
Sold at my LFS

I would not trust that company. The owner came here and showed a lack of understanding of chemistry principles.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I follow dir

So who do i trust?? If I go with the ICP then my hobby grade kits will measure thru the roof lol

I would use either Triton or possibly ATI.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am a big picture kind of person.
I don’t really care about all the small elements.
I care about alk/cal/magnesium and those are
“Very accurate” From icp test.
I try to keep it as simple as possible.
Icp test are now done in the USA
And for as little as $20

I've seen at least one thread where someone split a sample and sent it to several ICP companies. The magnesium was wildly and disappointingly different.

 

[Amado]

No they are not. Some are quite inaccurate.

Ok so let’s get one thing straight we are talking about a comparison between. A person testing in a basement. with a lab grade equipment and testing facility that icp test offer. Icp testing is great for the hobby.
Is it perfect I am sure it’s not but it’s better than testing at home.
Now for a person like me that doesn’t need the micro details of my reef tank.
Knowing alk/cal/mag to confirm what I have
Tested at home is great !
I am also about ranges. I don’t need my alk to be perfect I just need it within range.

 

[Amado]

I've seen at least one thread where someone split a sample and sent it to several ICP companies. The magnesium was wildly and disappointingly different.

Please link the thread with video.
And results with the same test numbers.

 

[Lousybreed]

I would not trust that company. The owner came here and showed a lack of understanding of chemistry principles.

@Amado and there you have it. And no I am not that stupid to share my emails there is a thing called getting sued. And if you don’t think it can happen for something like this wake up dude!

 

[Lousybreed]

I would use either Triton or possibly ATI.

Aligned on both of these suggestions.

 

[Lousybreed]

I would not trust that company. The owner came here and showed a lack of understanding of chemistry principles.

There is another one too that I would not trust from the US. They actually got mad at me for asking for documentation!!!!

 

[Lousybreed]

Can you share who did and didn't?

I would rather say I would use Triton or ATI and leave it at that.

 

[ReefHomieJon]

I've seen at least one thread where someone split a sample and sent it to several ICP companies. The magnesium was wildly and disappointingly different.

That’s it, we’re all doomed lol

 

[madweazl]

Ok so let’s get one thing straight we are talking about a comparison between. A person testing in a basement. with a lab grade equipment and testing facility that icp test offer. Icp testing is great for the hobby.
Is it perfect I am sure it’s not but it’s better than testing at home.
Now for a person like me that doesn’t need the micro details of my reef tank.
Knowing alk/cal/mag to confirm what I have
Tested at home is great !
I am also about ranges. I don’t need my alk to be perfect I just need it within range.

Unfortunately, some of the ICPs here are equivalent to "a person testing in a basement." Lots of things are great in theory, just not in reality. The analysis is only as good as the person conducting it.

 

[User1]

I can't speak for all vendors who offer ICP. I do know that the one used by this OP while affordable is usually questioned. If you do a search you will find similar results as noted here by fellow hobbyists and hobbyists who do chemical stuff for a living. Also posted in this thread is a article about ICP testing and a good conversation in the comment and/or notes. If you are going to do any ICP tests I'd strongly urge you to read the document first so you can get an idea of how it works and what it may be able to do for you.

Now - with all that out of the way let me also say this. I'm biased and use ATI. Why? Consistent results by fellow hobbyists. Great support. I had a question and I received an email the next day (they are in Germany). Professional. Also let me know subsequent Q&A may be delayed due to the holidays. I use ATI as a holistic view of my water and water only. I usually run them quarterly but if I forget I'm usually down for two a year at a minimum. Since I dislike testing, have a Trident, I pretty much send off samples as such:

1. Trident tests 4/2/2 (4 times alk a day, 2 times Ca and Mg a day)
2. At 1155 I grab a cup of water from the sump (Trident tests at noon, sump is the sample line feed)
3. Trident tests
4. I run Hanna ALK and Phosphate tests manually
5. Fill ATI's sample tubes, package up, and drop in mail
6. Update Apex with manual tests, enter log note for ATI
7. ATI results come back anywhere from 5 to 7 days. I send tests out on Wed, usually get boxed by US group and sent same week to ATI Labs in Germany
8. Once ATI's results are in I'll pull up Fusion, check my manual numbers for ALK and Phosphate to ATI. I also check Tridents ALk, Ca, and Mg to ATI,
9. Review Salinity to Apex
10. Review rest of the results

Now I have the same water sample 5 minutes before the trident and results to compare. So far every time all have been within their margin of error. Nothing off. The one time ATI reported a problem and when I used their support was when they came back and said my salinity was off. I tested manually and it was again different. They explained and felt theirs was correct. @Randy Holmes-Farley and another member here asked me if I used a reference solution with my checker. I said no. They recommended me pick one up, I did, and guess what? Results matched ATI. Problem fixed and my fault It also reported low iodine one time. I dosed their recommendation and the next test it came back fine.

Anyway this is a bit long winded now but what the key take way is this. Not all ICP tests are the same. Those that hobbyist prefer do provide a holistic view of our water. It is a guide to go along with your tanks history, your visual confirmation of health, and any manual tests you may have done using the same water sample. Together now you can use the results.

 

[Steve Fast]

I'm using the same company. Sodium and magnesium seem really off... 20% for sodium and 15% for magnesium.... seems odd to me.

 

[ross0201]

Does anyone know if any of the companies marketing to hobbyists are accredited?