ICP testing nessesary or marketing?

[RGoltz]

It all depends on the method or system you choose to apply. I run Reef Moonshine so the tests are necessary because we manage all the elements directly instead of using water changes. If you are managing everything indirectly through water changes than I would say an ICP provides much less value because unless there are metals detected most of the information is not actionable.

 

[Reefvision]

I believe Icp testing is required when no water changes are done because over time you have no idea if trace elements are needed. In large tanks where water changes are a pita, icp is cost effective as well .As others have noted , smaller tanks will be ok with just water changes to ensure trace elements are fine. I need to look into the DSR method as those tanks seem to really thrive!!

 

[bnord]

think it is a good idea to keep you finger on the pulse of your tank as well as your rodi efficiency

price is high but if quality and consistency is assured it is acceptable

my concern is turn around time - i have used ATI 3 times now and each time is longer and now my forth is 10 days and counting to get the results back from Germany

anyone have the contact for a faster US based service?

after that I’m queuing up for microbiome testing

 

[Sean Clark]

anyone have the contact for a faster US based service?

after that I’m queuing up for microbiome testing

Triton has US based testing now; I believe it is conducted by Unique Corals. I have not used Triton, but from my understanding, the intent was to reduce turnaround time by not shipping to Germany.

ICP-Analysis is tested in Colorado. I have always received my results in a few days; typically four days from the day I ship it out.

 

[mindme]

Triton has US based testing now; I believe it is conducted by Unique Corals. I have not used Triton, but from my understanding, the intent was to reduce turnaround time by not shipping to Germany.

ICP-Analysis is tested in Colorado. I have always received my results in a few days; typically four days from the day I ship it out.

Yeah it's in California. It took less than a week for me to get the results, I was pretty surprised and not expecting them so quickly.

 

[wtac]

IMHO...ICP testing has raised more Q's than solutions for the typical hobbiest. My sincere apologies if this may p!$$ off ppl but too much info is just as confusing as too little. Every one of us hobbiests and "professionals'" experiences and processes are vastly different with how to deal with a particular issue or if there isn't, it creates (an) issue(s).

NLet's take the perspective of our respective lives are. Much like nature..."we" don't control it, per se. Nature reacts to the inputs that nature has to work with. Period, end of. It gets complicated for "us" that wish to control it to suit "our" wants and needs. Experiences differ to get to the end goal. Eliminating the human factor and "limitations of technologic" desire are foolish.

I'm not going to chest beat by academic and professional credentials but what I see...we are are all wanting to "keep up with the Jones'" and "one up" the other/"showcase"/grandstand. Many will disagree...but C'MON!!! We all LOVE to see the likes and responses ROLMFAO!!!

If it becomes a RESPECTFUL discussion, that is the best that we (I) can hope for.

 

[ocncheffy]

Well I recently did a Fauna Marin test and it helped diagnose low trace elements and mainly, figure out I actually had very little phosphate in the water. My hanna phosphorus tester was showing .25ppm with new reagents and new vials, yet the ICP test showed I had .04ppm.

This explained my colony deaths and burnt tips in my SPS as adding any GFO clearly bottomed out the tank. I've replaced my tester with a manual Nyos phosphate kit, and it now shows I have .08-.01ppm. Removed all GFO and all my SPS are already healing.

Point is, ICP revealed this within a week of sending water in.

 

[MTsquared]

Is ICP testing really nessesary? Would love to hear the thoughts you have on this.

In my humble opinion ICP testing is a piece of the puzzle I which we are able these days to keep so many different types of corals and often in the same tank.

The older hobbyists maybe know that back in the days it was mostly leathers and anemones.

But in present day we can keep such a variety of species; and even without doing any waterchanges for years.

For me ICP testing is a great control to see (especially when corals are less happy and the main parameters are in check) if there is a build-up of heavy metals or, when my gionoporas and zoas are mad, to see if my trace elements are too low. Some of which you don't want to overdose and are hard to test with the regular home kits.

A part of the trace elements are already in all-in-one-dosing solutions. But in my personal experience, it is not enough. If you want to keep a mixed reef, the balance between all parameters amis very thin and that is why an ICP can give great insight in how to improve your water quality even more.

Can you reef without ICP testing? Absolutely. But you can hit a ceiling in what your tank can achieve and what kind of corals you can keep (for the long haul).

I have only been in the hobby for 5 years, with a 4 year old mixed reef tank with 0 waterchanges and a small 50g mixed reef, which is almost 5 months old. So maybe I am a newbie and disaster is waiting to be happen. But for now, I am going to the mail to post my next ICP to see if I can dare another few months without a waterchange

Tanks look great, what are you doing instead of water changes? I think WC are the part of the hobby most of us hate. Please share any tips or pointers.

 

[paintman]

Whats frustrating is the fact that you have to send 2 little vials of water all the way around to the other side of the earth to find out whats wrong with your fish tank. With all the new found money Ryan at BRS has one would hope he will start some kind of testing service here in the states.

 

[MONTANTK]

If you want to keep a serious reef tank I think ICP is something that every hobbyist should consider. I have not done one yet but I can assure you I will be doing one before the year ends. You’d be surprised the things you will find in your water

 

[Laith]

I do an ICP test on the tank water and my RO/DI water every three months...

It gives me peace of mind but also has caught a couple of issues that I wouldn't have been aware of otherwise. For example:

- The ICP test kept showing my tank water being at 38ppt salinity. At first I thought this was because of evaporation of the sample sent etc. My refractometer as well as my Hanna digital refractometer both showed 35ppt, both regularly calibrated. So I decided to get a Fauna Marin hydrometer and it confirmed that my salinity was 38ppt.

- The ICP test kept showing Aluminum levels above 0 in both RO/DI water and tank water. Even though my RO/DI unit was constantly showing 0 TDS output. Because of the 0 TDS output readings, I hadn't changed my RO membrane for years. After finally deciding to change the membrane due to the Al levels showing in the ICP tests, my RO/DI water now shows 0 Al.

The ICP test is a useful tool to double check element levels, even if you do water changes as I do (AWC of 1% a day).

 

[mindme]

IMHO...ICP testing has raised more Q's than solutions for the typical hobbiest.

Hasn't raised any questions for me, only solutions.

If it was cheaper, I'd get them done more often.

 

[homer1475]

Never did one in the previous 20 years, and I'm certainly not starting now.

Well no I take that back I did do one a couple years back when things were dying. Guess what? Everything came back in the green, so exactly what did ICP tell me was going on in my tank? Absolutely nothing.

Worthless most of the time IMO. As someone above me said, too much information is just as bad as not enough some times.

And lets be totally honest here, who other then these ICP companies can confirm their data? Do they clean, and verify the machine is working properly after every sample? There is no regulation on it, so who knows? We have all seen the wild differences in these companies reporting when sending in the same sample.

Nope don't trust them to be very accurate.

 

[Richsoar]

Is ICP testing really nessesary? Would love to hear the thoughts you have on this.

In my humble opinion ICP testing is a piece of the puzzle I which we are able these days to keep so many different types of corals and often in the same tank.

The older hobbyists maybe know that back in the days it was mostly leathers and anemones.

But in present day we can keep such a variety of species; and even without doing any waterchanges for years.

For me ICP testing is a great control to see (especially when corals are less happy and the main parameters are in check) if there is a build-up of heavy metals or, when my gionoporas and zoas are mad, to see if my trace elements are too low. Some of which you don't want to overdose and are hard to test with the regular home kits.

A part of the trace elements are already in all-in-one-dosing solutions. But in my personal experience, it is not enough. If you want to keep a mixed reef, the balance between all parameters amis very thin and that is why an ICP can give great insight in how to improve your water quality even more.

Can you reef without ICP testing? Absolutely. But you can hit a ceiling in what your tank can achieve and what kind of corals you can keep (for the long haul).

I have only been in the hobby for 5 years, with a 4 year old mixed reef tank with 0 waterchanges and a small 50g mixed reef, which is almost 5 months old. So maybe I am a newbie and disaster is waiting to be happen. But for now, I am going to the mail to post my next ICP to see if I can dare another few months without a waterchange

Love it when acronyms are used in written discussions, everyone always knows what your talking about .... except me... What the heck is ICP!

 

[mindme]

Worthless most of the time IMO. As someone above me said, too much information is just as bad as not enough some times.

I just really do not understand this line of thought. I'm a programmer and work with data, and I've never in my life come across a situation where I had too much information/data.

 

[mindme]

Love it when acronyms are used in written discussions, everyone always knows what your talking about .... except me... What the heck is ICP!

ICP is a water test you send in for about $30-$40 depending on who is testing. It gives you a long list of things in your water. Trace Elements, etc.

I have tried a few and thus far like the ICP-Triton best. Although it is a little more expensive. You can find others for a little cheaper.

ICP Water Test for Reef Aquariums — ICP-OES Analysis | TRITON

45 elements at parts-per-billion precision: the TRITON ICP test analyses your reef aquarium water in the lab — including trace elements and heavy metals invisible to home test kits. Results in 24–48 hours.

www.triton-lab.de

TRITON analyses a comprehensive suite of macro and trace elements crucial to healthy function of your reef system:
Sodium (Na), Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), Potassium (K), Strontium (Sr), Boron (B), Bromine (Br), Sulphur (S), Lithium (Li), Beryllium (Be), Barium (Ba), Titanium (Ti), Vanadium (V), Chromium (Cr), Manganese (Mn), Iron (Fe), Cobalt (Co), Nickel (Ni), Copper (Cu), Zinc (Zn), Aluminium (Al), Silicon (Si), Arsenic (As), Antimony (Sb), Tin (Sn), Cadmium (Cd), Selenium (Se), Molybdenum (Mo), Mercury (Hg), Phosphorus (P), Phosphate (PO4), Lead (Pb), Iodine (I), Tungsten (W), Scandium (Sc), Lanthanum (La).

 

[paintman]

I just really do not understand this line of thought. I'm a programmer and work with data, and I've never in my life come across a situation where I had too much information/data.

Hey Lone Wadde......Might want to look at the game of baseball nowadays. The game has been completly taken away from the managers and coaches making decisions based on gut feeling and experience.

Instead a computer on the 75th floor where the front office is located spits out an anyalysis for each situation. From there the information gets relayed down from the powers that be, and the manager does what he is told. change pitcher, hit and run, steal 2nd base etc. etc. Most of the time the computer is wrong and the manager should have been allowed to go with his gut feeling.

 

[jdiefenbaugh]

I have had too many questionable results from triton labs to put much faith in them, TBH. Most recently I had a cracked MP60 wet side and lost ~40 frags. It was my fault for not catching it immediately, as I was positive it was metal contamination looking at the SPS, but my ICP tests continually came back at all zeroes for all heavy metals. My Hanna copper checker was giving copper readings over 1 ppm, and it was the correct reading. This was just the most recent, but have seen other instances where test results were likely very off. At the price point, I'll probably just skip them in the future.

 

[Tamberav]

People kept reef tanks before ICP so no.

 

[mindme]

Hey Lone Wadde......Might want to look at the game of baseball nowadays. The game has been completly taken away from the managers and coaches making decisions based on gut feeling and experience.

Instead a computer on the 75th floor where the front office is located spits out an anyalysis for each situation. From there the information gets relayed down from the powers that be, and the manager does what he is told. change pitcher, hit and run, steal 2nd base etc. etc. Most of the time the computer is wrong and the manager should have been allowed to go with his gut feeling.

I could have missed.

The computer problem is likely due to a lack of data, rather than too much data. Aka it's making decisions based on general data, when it needs to be making decisions based on current data. However the current data(aka the players conditions etc) is impossible to know, while a GM is able to apply the current data.

Also, programs lack intuition for the most part.

Sounds like it should be a tool for the GM to use, rather than a replacement.