GSnake
Well-Known Member
Can you diagnose and give me treatment suggestions for this type of bacteria algae. It is gray colored can be blown off but always reattches to the rocks in particular. It's hairy but not uniform.
I'd algae..or bacteria
- Thread starter GSnake
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there are fifteen ways to cure that, so you'll get fifteen options. The way Id cure it is found in the 12 page sand rinse thread (we need a pic of your sand as well, clouding detritus there is feeding this issue)
The right way to fix this tank is to take it apart and make everything cloudless, the rocks will have pent up detritus too needing expressed as they've been blanketed in invader a while and unable to express the whole waste pellets (detritus) and that plugs up rock porosity, reduces filtration abilities, and fosters more growth right above the feed areas
Killing whats under that invader is as important as killing the actual invader. If you want a heckuva custom tune up, post a full tank shot. I sure hope this is a nano reef lemme know
The right way to fix this tank is to take it apart and make everything cloudless, the rocks will have pent up detritus too needing expressed as they've been blanketed in invader a while and unable to express the whole waste pellets (detritus) and that plugs up rock porosity, reduces filtration abilities, and fosters more growth right above the feed areas
Killing whats under that invader is as important as killing the actual invader. If you want a heckuva custom tune up, post a full tank shot. I sure hope this is a nano reef lemme know
we have a way to simply kill all that algae off your rocks and system without much delay, but, if you don't address the cloudy conditions in that tank something new will just grow back
we need to make your sandbed not cloudy if there is one
reach in and grab one of those test rocks as it sits, shake it about in the water; a cloud will come off. We'd be undoing that, if you really want this tank fixed. Most just avoid work, dump in a temporary cure, and hope.
We haven't been doing that here, for 12 pages, we've been actually fixing tanks and I need some updated proofs for a different thread so if you are down, this invasion isn't hard to beat at all if you agree to actually clean up this tank alongside the kill of the target.
we need to make your sandbed not cloudy if there is one
reach in and grab one of those test rocks as it sits, shake it about in the water; a cloud will come off. We'd be undoing that, if you really want this tank fixed. Most just avoid work, dump in a temporary cure, and hope.
We haven't been doing that here, for 12 pages, we've been actually fixing tanks and I need some updated proofs for a different thread so if you are down, this invasion isn't hard to beat at all if you agree to actually clean up this tank alongside the kill of the target.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
Its not possible that we'd apply the steps all the tanks did in this thread to your tank and your tank wouldn't comply. Your tank would certainly comply
Peroxide is the kill step we'd apply to that target to actually kill it, but, that peroxide isn't dumped in your water its applied to the actual rocks, after you've already scraped off the invader, and after we've made the sandbed and other rocks not loaded with detritus (the fuel for your algae and invasion)
For sure, don't blend methods of control for that, choose a clear direction method and run it until its completion, then try another. Based on initial pics, it would take about one week to get 95% turnaround using our hand cleaning system.
Its not possible that we'd apply the steps all the tanks did in this thread to your tank and your tank wouldn't comply. Your tank would certainly comply
Peroxide is the kill step we'd apply to that target to actually kill it, but, that peroxide isn't dumped in your water its applied to the actual rocks, after you've already scraped off the invader, and after we've made the sandbed and other rocks not loaded with detritus (the fuel for your algae and invasion)
For sure, don't blend methods of control for that, choose a clear direction method and run it until its completion, then try another. Based on initial pics, it would take about one week to get 95% turnaround using our hand cleaning system.
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KrisReef
10K Club member
Is that used live rock, or previous live rock? Looks like whatever is growing is likely eating nutrients leaching from the substrate. Typical of new set-ups. What is your nitrate and phosphate levels?
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. Yes it's a nano. I'm gonna look into it.
It's dry Marco rock. And live sand from Carib sea. Nit and phos is 0, or undetectable. Since I got a refugium, chaeto and purigen at least. But these rocks have had first green leafy lettuce algae then this since the beginning in January. Haven't done more than blow off. Use a toothbrush and water change. But this gray stuff is relentless. It's not like normal algae.
It's dry Marco rock. And live sand from Carib sea. Nit and phos is 0, or undetectable. Since I got a refugium, chaeto and purigen at least. But these rocks have had first green leafy lettuce algae then this since the beginning in January. Haven't done more than blow off. Use a toothbrush and water change. But this gray stuff is relentless. It's not like normal algae.
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
Oh by the way the water isn't normally that cloudy.. I was in the midst of a water change after scraping the walls, the power heads were off too.
The Sand bed usually has dust clouds when stirred up though. It has always been like that since I put the livesand in there.
The Sand bed usually has dust clouds when stirred up though. It has always been like that since I put the livesand in there.
Tooth brush and or fluconazole for the light hair (I’d highly reccomend snails first.
Not really seeing the grey , but what are you feeding ? Aminos , any carbon dosing? If it’s a bacteria it likes that stuff. It also very well could be just grunge caught in hair.
Bryopsis and gha will get cyano like that.
Not really seeing the grey , but what are you feeding ? Aminos , any carbon dosing? If it’s a bacteria it likes that stuff. It also very well could be just grunge caught in hair.
Bryopsis and gha will get cyano like that.
Gsnake
If you want to get a glimpse of the power of peroxide used correctly, even before we de cloud your setup of all the predicted detritus fuel, simply lift out one test rock and do nothing but pour medical 3% common peroxide across the whole rock
Let sit cooking in air three minutes
Rinse well in saltwater, set back in tank
Does not remove its bacteria per common thought, watch what that algae does in 48 hours, shocking
After that test rock wows on Friday, by next week you get a new nano for 75 cents cost and two hours effort dealing with detritus as we've been doing a few years now
If you want to get a glimpse of the power of peroxide used correctly, even before we de cloud your setup of all the predicted detritus fuel, simply lift out one test rock and do nothing but pour medical 3% common peroxide across the whole rock
Let sit cooking in air three minutes
Rinse well in saltwater, set back in tank
Does not remove its bacteria per common thought, watch what that algae does in 48 hours, shocking
After that test rock wows on Friday, by next week you get a new nano for 75 cents cost and two hours effort dealing with detritus as we've been doing a few years now
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Also, you have no nutrient issues in the tank unrelated to detritus we can simply see regardless of your nitrate and phosphate readings. Using po4 binder won't be necessary after the system is de clouded, that was a detritus/clouding offset the whole time.
#of times we asked for, factored, or knew about someone's nutrient levels in order to earn the restoration work in that sand rinse thread was 0 times
Removing detritus is amazing, adding a kill step and putting the control back on your side changes reefing forever. with one pre modeled step pouring the bubbly over a simple test rock you can predict the outcome before upscaled to the rest of the tank.
The known response time for your algae to the test treatment is forty eight hours, yet the invasion has manifested for months, that’s why it’s time to hand clean the right way.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/
A whole different works thread, many after shots, and number of times we factored water nutrients, zero. A pattern has been shown on reworking tanks from top to bottom, and detritus matters in every step.
Invaded reef tanks are in an ecological condition called eutrophication.
It's not possible to undo eutrophication and keep detritus in the system, but it's possible to temporarily regulate alternating generations of invaders while keeping detritus. The long term fix is to quickly restore full porosity to the system and make it cloud free using skip cycle cleaning procedure.
#of times we asked for, factored, or knew about someone's nutrient levels in order to earn the restoration work in that sand rinse thread was 0 times
Removing detritus is amazing, adding a kill step and putting the control back on your side changes reefing forever. with one pre modeled step pouring the bubbly over a simple test rock you can predict the outcome before upscaled to the rest of the tank.
The known response time for your algae to the test treatment is forty eight hours, yet the invasion has manifested for months, that’s why it’s time to hand clean the right way.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/
A whole different works thread, many after shots, and number of times we factored water nutrients, zero. A pattern has been shown on reworking tanks from top to bottom, and detritus matters in every step.
Invaded reef tanks are in an ecological condition called eutrophication.
It's not possible to undo eutrophication and keep detritus in the system, but it's possible to temporarily regulate alternating generations of invaders while keeping detritus. The long term fix is to quickly restore full porosity to the system and make it cloud free using skip cycle cleaning procedure.
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Sallstrom
2500 Club Member
I would like to present another option instead of cleaning everything and/or using peroxide. This is just how I would have done in the same situation, not the one and only solution 
Your nutrients are low in the water. So there is no need to be worried of nutreints feeding the algae. Sure they use nutrients, but I you want corals as well you'll need some nutrients. I would more be concerned with the low nitrate, but I'll come back to that.
I would have bought some clean up crew. Maybe some smaller sea urchins, like collector urchin or similar. Perhaps some hermit crabs. The type of grazers is of course determind by the size of your tank. So let the grazers take care of the algae, and give them some time. Help them out if you like by remove some algae manually. Some species like shorter algae over the longer ones, so by remove manually you might help snails and hermitcrabs. IMO unwanted algae is best removed long term by a clean up crew and patience. Once you got animals grazing on the algae, sooner or later other types of algae(calcareous algae) will take over and outcompete the unwated ones.
I looks like you also have some cyanobacteria on the algae. Not much, so no need to panic But they usually comes when there's low nitrate levels in the water. An easy thing to try is to adjust the NO3 to about 2-5ppm. I like to use KNO3(often used for fresh water planted tanks) to raise the nitrate. When you reached 2-5ppm NO3, try to keep those numbers for some time and see if the cyano goes away.
That was my thoughts anyway. Feel free to ask if you want any more of those
Good luck
/ David
Your nutrients are low in the water. So there is no need to be worried of nutreints feeding the algae. Sure they use nutrients, but I you want corals as well you'll need some nutrients. I would more be concerned with the low nitrate, but I'll come back to that.
I would have bought some clean up crew. Maybe some smaller sea urchins, like collector urchin or similar. Perhaps some hermit crabs. The type of grazers is of course determind by the size of your tank. So let the grazers take care of the algae, and give them some time. Help them out if you like by remove some algae manually. Some species like shorter algae over the longer ones, so by remove manually you might help snails and hermitcrabs. IMO unwanted algae is best removed long term by a clean up crew and patience. Once you got animals grazing on the algae, sooner or later other types of algae(calcareous algae) will take over and outcompete the unwated ones.
I looks like you also have some cyanobacteria on the algae. Not much, so no need to panic
But they usually comes when there's low nitrate levels in the water. An easy thing to try is to adjust the NO3 to about 2-5ppm. I like to use KNO3(often used for fresh water planted tanks) to raise the nitrate. When you reached 2-5ppm NO3, try to keep those numbers for some time and see if the cyano goes away. That was my thoughts anyway. Feel free to ask if you want any more of those
Good luck
/ David
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
I did clean a portion of my sandbed, the part that is easily accessible to me,.however the brown algae that was once on top and stirred within the sand ended up back on top after this week. I did remove a quite a bit of blonde grayish dust like detritus though. Im going to try a test rock with hydro peroxide and scraping after buying a spray bottle this week. How else can one do this treatment effectively?
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
It almost looks gray. More dust colored, almost like dead gha or something. I'm feeding marine flakes, algae sheets, reef roids and phytoplankton. No dosing carbon or anything.
We work in full increments in the sand rinse thread, no partial actions because that upwells nutrients left over from the unrinsed portions. My system has you make both your rocks and sand cloudless, then you apply the modeled kill step
I recommend no blending of actions, use the water tuning way first with no peroxide or tank cleaning. If their way doesn't work, when we run my method it will work, but you have to be done with the other method before running mine as we make polar opposite recommendations on what you should do with detritus. My system will work when you are cloud free, and it takes specific ordered steps to get there. Zip me a message if the other ways don't pan out and this tank can be put back into complicance easily. If you are going to use peroxide in any way without de clouding the system, my way isn't ready to be applied yet, we clean the whole thing out all at once and this requires a huge amnt of trust in the approach. we usually only get that much resolve right before someone is about to take the tank down, before then they'll try every partial action possible to avoid the work and perceived risk of the rip clean though it's documented really well
I recommend no blending of actions, use the water tuning way first with no peroxide or tank cleaning. If their way doesn't work, when we run my method it will work, but you have to be done with the other method before running mine as we make polar opposite recommendations on what you should do with detritus. My system will work when you are cloud free, and it takes specific ordered steps to get there. Zip me a message if the other ways don't pan out and this tank can be put back into complicance easily. If you are going to use peroxide in any way without de clouding the system, my way isn't ready to be applied yet, we clean the whole thing out all at once and this requires a huge amnt of trust in the approach. we usually only get that much resolve right before someone is about to take the tank down, before then they'll try every partial action possible to avoid the work and perceived risk of the rip clean though it's documented really well
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
Just an update with water tuning method. I don't think my skimmer was working efficiently before, now it seems like it was sporadic and overflowing. I have noticed a sizable difference with increasing the height of the unit this lowering the water level, so there's more tube for bubbles to expand. It's an air driven skimmer. Gha has not grown back since last water change. I'm just watching cyano now. It looks like it's grown and receded so I'm hoping time will tell the whole story.
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GSnake
Well-Known Member
and now with the new pics taken today (November) 3 months or so later.
almost weekly water changes (15%) with sand siphoning [adjusted flow for detritus removal only]. had to clean my refugium twice completely, stuff sticks to chaeto easily too. and bought a uv sterilizer two weeks ago to stick in my aquaclear with carbon alongside it.
the improvement has been dramatic I think and the UV recently helped too. I already notice growth from corals and my monti is retaking space back from which the cyano took from it.
already looking forward to seeing my tank thrive after what feels like a long time, and boxing day is coming up ( time to buy some frags... mostly looking forward to a flame tip anemone though- for the clowns)
oh and don't mind the backwall! its a water change day tomorrow
almost weekly water changes (15%) with sand siphoning [adjusted flow for detritus removal only]. had to clean my refugium twice completely, stuff sticks to chaeto easily too. and bought a uv sterilizer two weeks ago to stick in my aquaclear with carbon alongside it.
the improvement has been dramatic I think and the UV recently helped too. I already notice growth from corals and my monti is retaking space back from which the cyano took from it.
already looking forward to seeing my tank thrive after what feels like a long time, and boxing day is coming up ( time to buy some frags... mostly looking forward to a flame tip anemone though- for the clowns)
oh and don't mind the backwall! its a water change day tomorrow
