Ideal Alkalinity for SPS growth?

[Max93]

I want to revive this and ask a question that no one has ever been able to answer for me.
If alk is 10, what should your par, and po4 and no3 be?

if alk is 9, what should your par, po4, and no3 be?

if alk is 8, what should your par, po4, and no3 be?

all I read is high alk = high nutrients. What is high nutrients???

 

[Cory]

I want to revive this and ask a question that no one has ever been able to answer for me.
If alk is 10, what should your par, and po4 and no3 be?

if alk is 9, what should your par, po4, and no3 be?

if alk is 8, what should your par, po4, and no3 be?

all I read is high alk = high nutrients. What is high nutrients???

High alkalinity would best to have no3 of 10ppm or less and po4 of .10ppm or less. That is high nutrients to sps. But i dont think it matters too much as long as you dont have 0 for both and fading corals. Faded corals indicate low nutrients but not the only reason.

 

[Max93]

High alkalinity would best to have no3 of 10ppm or less and po4 of .10ppm or less. That is high nutrients to sps. But i dont think it matters too much as long as you dont have 0 for both and fading corals. Faded corals indicate low nutrients but not the only reason.

Gotcha, I figured it was somewhere around the .08-.1 range but have never really read if a direct level of these things.

I’ve been having some acros receding but full PE lately, not all, and figured it had something to do with keeping my nutrients too high for too long. Currently have 9.4 alk and .18 po4 and 16 nitrates.

I’m reducing my feeding and skimming wet, I’ve been able to bring it down from .24 in about a week.

 

[Cory]

Gotcha, I figured it was somewhere around the .08-.1 range but have never really read if a direct level of these things.

I’ve been having some acros receding but full PE lately, not all, and figured it had something to do with keeping my nutrients too high for too long. Currently have 9.4 alk and .18 po4 and 16 nitrates.

I’m reducing my feeding and skimming wet, I’ve been able to bring it down from .24 in about a week.

High po4 brings on many unseen effects that harm sps. Inhibition of strong calicum structure is well known. However there are many microorganisms that may gain an advantage on sps with higher po4. Higher po4 also means higher detritus accumulation.

 

[wculver]

I seem to find a lot of contradicting information.
Some say high, like 10dkh (red sea)
Others say low, like 7.5

I'm keeping mine at 9.5 right now. My SPS all seems happy. I see a lot of people talking about tip burn with high alk. My nutrients are pretty low and consistent. .03 phosphate and 2 ppm nitrate.
According to some of the stuff ive read, my acro tips should be burning.
What am I missing?

If you can keep those numbers, all of them, at these levels then you're good to go. What starts to chip away is when levels start to vary. Higher alkalinity is generally accepted to have less forgiveness. With an established tank and stability that'll be the key to SPS growth. With the 9.5 ALK it'll actually give you a little bit of a boost over someone at say 8.5.

 

[Superlightman]

Some updates in your systems?

 

[_Jake_Simek_]

The higher the ALK the faster the skeleton growth, if the the other perimeters that contribute to the flesh growth are low such as po4 and no3 then the flesh can't keep up with the skeleton then the tips get burnt because the flesh is to thin on tips.

this is the best answer right here

 

[Streetcred]

Randy Homes-Farley wrote a good article on water parameters some years ago that I think are worth revisiting.

 

[92Miata]

I seem to find a lot of contradicting information.
Some say high, like 10dkh (red sea)
Others say low, like 7.5

I'm keeping mine at 9.5 right now. My SPS all seems happy. I see a lot of people talking about tip burn with high alk. My nutrients are pretty low and consistent. .03 phosphate and 2 ppm nitrate.
According to some of the stuff ive read, my acro tips should be burning.
What am I missing?

What you're missing is that food and light are also part of the equation.

A) High light increases oxidative stress - zooxanthelle release oxygen as a biproduct of photosynthesis (and oxygen is needed, but also highly reactive). Tip burn is oxydative stress that is not being repaired.

B) High Alkalinity causes faster skeletal deposition (IE, growth) - which means the coral has to produce tissue quicker, and zoothanthelle need to reproduce quicker.

Corals need a certain amount of nitrogen and phosphorus to repair damaged tissue (A) and grow new tissue/zooxanthelle (B). They can get this nitrogen and phosphorus through pulling ammonia and inorganic phosphate out of the water column, or consuming bacteria/etc in their slime layers. (Corals aren't real interested in nitrate - its really low energy).

Every time you feed, you're creating short term bursts where phosphate levels and ammonia levels are much higher in the water column, then bacteria reproduce and are in some amount consumed. IE, you can have a tank with .03 PO4 in the water column that has very little available and starving corals, or you can have a tank that has .03 PO4 in the water column, and gets fed a ton, and has corals that have plenty.

IE, what you can directly measure is only a very small part of the picture.

 

[SamMule]

What you're missing is that food and light are also part of the equation.

A) High light increases oxidative stress - zooxanthelle release oxygen as a biproduct of photosynthesis (and oxygen is needed, but also highly reactive). Tip burn is oxydative stress that is not being repaired.

B) High Alkalinity causes faster skeletal deposition (IE, growth) - which means the coral has to produce tissue quicker, and zoothanthelle need to reproduce quicker.

Corals need a certain amount of nitrogen and phosphorus to repair damaged tissue (A) and grow new tissue/zooxanthelle (B). They can get this nitrogen and phosphorus through pulling ammonia and inorganic phosphate out of the water column, or consuming bacteria/etc in their slime layers. (Corals aren't real interested in nitrate - its really low energy).

Every time you feed, you're creating short term bursts where phosphate levels and ammonia levels are much higher in the water column, then bacteria reproduce and are in some amount consumed. IE, you can have a tank with .03 PO4 in the water column that has very little available and starving corals, or you can have a tank that has .03 PO4 in the water column, and gets fed a ton, and has corals that have plenty.

IE, what you can directly measure is only a very small part of the picture.

This is probably the best explanation I have seen yet. Thank you very much! Also, FWIW, in the year or two that has passed since I started this thread, I have found much more success running my alkalinity between 7-8 and higher nutrients. PO4 around .2-.3(hannah)and nitrates in the 12-25 range(nyos)

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

This is probably the best explanation I have seen yet. Thank you very much! Also, FWIW, in the year or two that has passed since I started this thread, I have found much more success running my alkalinity between 7-8 and higher nutrients. PO4 around .2-.3(hannah)and nitrates in the 12-25 range(nyos)

Very nice, that's great! Tank looks great too!

 

[homer1475]

When I used to run higher(9 to 11), always had issues keeping SPS long term. If they lived for a month, they were good to go for a long time, but that was few and far between.

Once I lowered my ALK down to 7.0 to 7.5 I have 0 issues keeping SPS long term.

My nutrient levels have always been 10 to 20ppm nitrates, and 0.1 to 0.2 phosphates.

 

[92Miata]

This is probably the best explanation I have seen yet. Thank you very much! Also, FWIW, in the year or two that has passed since I started this thread, I have found much more success running my alkalinity between 7-8 and higher nutrients. PO4 around .2-.3(hannah)and nitrates in the 12-25 range(nyos)

My experience matches yours and @homer1475 's experience - I have found acropora to be much more resilient in the 6.0-8.0 dkh range. They seem way more touchy at higher alkalinity (which makes sense to me - faster skeletal growth means that nutrient deficiencies do damage way faster).

 

[Jeff Jarry reef]

I keep my ALK 8.5 - 9.2
Nitrates 15-20
Phos ppb 25 hanna .
Par 450 - 550 some places are 600+ near top of some coral.. just like mentioned above all tanks are different mine does great with these parameters!

 

[Kovenant]

I seem to find a lot of contradicting information.
Some say high, like 10dkh (red sea)
Others say low, like 7.5

I'm keeping mine at 9.5 right now. My SPS all seems happy. I see a lot of people talking about tip burn with high alk. My nutrients are pretty low and consistent. .03 phosphate and 2 ppm nitrate.
According to some of the stuff ive read, my acro tips should be burning.
What am I missing?

That's not Ultra low system

 

[Cool tangs]

My alk sits anywhere between 6dkh - 8.5dkh I honestly think alk is extremely exaggerated by the hobby. I never panic anymore. corals seems to do fine with slow swings and low alk. still get good growth. My opinion is people believe higher alk means higher PH and in theory gives faster growth. There maybe some truth although, I'm not convinced that alk is as important as people make it out to be, I think there is a limit personally on the higher level before corals suffer. I'm all about natural levels I don't think alk levels is what determines growth speed, other then what is in your tank for the corals to consume.

The things that I find wipe or destroy growth is poor water quality a.k.a RODI not filtering correctly or phosphate swings.

Since recovering from my RODI unit not filtering water correctly and wiping out my SPS from polluting the water with high TDS top off water, my monticaps have exploded in growth. Zoas are out of control, chalice corals growing faster then ever, my new test SPS have coloured up well now and just waiting for them to start growing now. Maybe some one will prove me wrong. Maybe it's a fluke. I do have the orphek natura icons and have also noticed improvement from those lights alone. I think we still don't fully understand this hobby and a lot of info that we still believe is outdated and debunked.

Maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley might have some better insight then any of us

Happy reefing

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I can only speak of my experience, but since reducing water parameters to NSW conditions with alk 6.5-7, my coraline went mad & SPS really took off

 

[Dburr1014]

That's not Ultra low system

2 year old post from the OP.

My alk sits anywhere between 6dkh - 8.5dkh I honestly think alk is extremely exaggerated by the hobby. I never panic anymore. corals seems to do fine with slow swings and low alk. still get good growth. My opinion is people believe higher alk means higher PH and in theory gives faster growth. There maybe some truth although, I'm not convinced that alk is as important as people make it out to be, I think there is a limit personally on the higher level before corals suffer. I'm all about natural levels I don't think alk levels is what determines growth speed, other then what is in your tank for the corals to consume.

The things that I find wipe or destroy growth is poor water quality a.k.a RODI not filtering correctly or phosphate swings.

Since recovering from my RODI unit not filtering water correctly and wiping out my SPS from polluting the water with high TDS top off water, my monticaps have exploded in growth. Zoas are out of control, chalice corals growing faster then ever, my new test SPS have coloured up well now and just waiting for them to start growing now. Maybe some one will prove me wrong. Maybe it's a fluke. I do have the orphek natura icons and have also noticed improvement from those lights alone. I think we still don't fully understand this hobby and a lot of info that we still believe is outdated and debunked.

Maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley might have some better insight then any of us

Happy reefing

There may be some truth to the alk. I have on several occasions not tested alk for a while and only to find out it's down to 6 dkh. My system never skipped a beat.
I just raise it back up and adjust the calrx. 1dkh swings are fine but I'm not going to test anything higher than that per day.

 

[scotty333]

My 2 cents worth , I ran my mixed reef at a solid 8 for 4 months before problems with my doser which dumped 1.6 kh at once then the next day another .3 so I was at 9.9
It completely stunned my sps/lps and took 4 days to reduce to 8.2 whereas they were consuming 3kh per day
I got tip burn on 1 acro( ocean farmed) but seems to be repairing now
Had some po4 swings too but now solid between .04 -.06 and no3 at 10-12
Par is 450 For most acros and 350 minimum on other sps
Other params are
Calc 430
Mag 1300 ( raising to 1400)
Ph 8.3
Orp 350
Temp 26
Strontium 8
A lot of traces are low but am fixing that and won’t go into it here as it’s not related to the topic

 

[bobnicaragua]

I came home from vacation a few years ago and the alk was at 5.8. With no one breathing in the house, the PH went up and sped up growth. The acros looked great.

I just barely bumped up the two part and took a few weeks to bring it back up. Since then I’ve been much more focused on PH.