Ideal constant water change system

[jeffberens]

I use two PMUPs with three float switches. Twice a day, I pump 4 gallons out of the return section to a low point designated by a float switch (Sump_Low). Once that triggers, the water stops pumping out of the sump and I begin refilling sump with fresh water until a designated float switch is tripped (Sump_Normal). Should this ever fail, I have a third float switch (Sump_High) which acts as redundancy.

When you pump the old water out, how do you stop the water from draining entirely when you shut off the pump and gravity and siphon still exist?

 

[Dubs83]

When you pump the old water out, how do you stop the water from draining entirely when you shut off the pump and gravity and siphon still exist?

Ah, I'm fortunate in this regard as my drain is actually above the sump. Sump is in the basement and I pump up to ceiling mounted drain. I wonder if you could install a reverse check valve to create a siphon break when the PMUP stops pumping. Or maybe put together a stand out of egg crate for the PMUP? This way you limit how much water will siphon out? Then you can use a second PMUP to refill?

 

[jeffberens]

Ah, I'm fortunate in this regard as my drain is actually above the sump. Sump is in the basement and I pump up to ceiling mounted drain. I wonder if you could install a reverse check valve to create a siphon break when the PMUP stops pumping. Or maybe put together a stand out of egg crate for the PMUP? This way you limit how much water will siphon out? Then you can use a second PMUP to refill?

I'm wrestling with how to stop the siphon in my case. I was thinking that if I have a PMUP in the sump and I initiate a water change, I would only have to run the pump for a minute or so to establish a siphon and then let it stop and let gravity do the rest. I will mount it off the bottom of the sump at whatever level makes sense. Then I can have another PMUP down in the basement mixing station pump new salt water up until my float valve stops it.

I'm envisioning:
1. Shutting down the return pump and skimmer
2. Starting the PMUP in sump to drain for a minute and then powering it off so it won't run dry.
3 After a period of time turning on the PMUP in the salt water mixing container to pump it back up until the float stops it. This plumbing will have to be above water level so it can't siphon back down.

 

[Dubs83]

I'm wrestling with how to stop the siphon in my case. I was thinking that if I have a PMUP in the sump and I initiate a water change, I would only have to run the pump for a minute or so to establish a siphon and then let it stop and let gravity do the rest. I will mount it off the bottom of the sump at whatever level makes sense. Then I can have another PMUP down in the basement mixing station pump new salt water up until my float valve stops it.

I'm envisioning:
1. Shutting down the return pump and skimmer
2. Starting the PMUP in sump to drain for a minute and then powering it off so it won't run dry.
3 After a period of time turning on the PMUP in the salt water mixing container to pump it back up until the float stops it. This plumbing will have to be above water level so it can't siphon back down.

If I was in your situation, it's how I would do it. I didn't want to turn anything off. During my AWC every stays running as if nothing happened. But yes, the way you described it is one way of doing it.

I'm not fancy with my APEX coding so there's no virtual outlets or anything like that.

Here's the sequence of things
ATO: turns off 1 minute before pumping waste water off. You can see this happens twice a day at 0959 and 2029. It turns back on at 1015 and 2045

Then I start pumping old water out at 1000 and 2030 with a 10 second deferment until SUMP_L is OPEN. This takes about 4 minutes

At 1008 and 2038, I pump fresh saltwater back into the sump until SUMP_N is CLOSED. This takes about 5 minutes.

Hope this helps

 

[SethOF]

I'm wrestling with how to stop the siphon in my case.

I solved this problem when setting up a pump to supply RO/DI water for my ATO reservoir by installing a solenoid valve in line that shuts off when the pump turns off. It is enough to break the siphon.

 

[Aerixx]

Very good info here

 

[reefwiser]

With the dual head stenner none of this is needed . Here is all the programing needed. Water level in sump never changes so ATO never comes on during the 4 minutes the pump runs.

 

[SethOF]

With the dual head stenner none of this is needed . Here is all the programing needed. Water level in sump never changes so ATO never comes on during the 4 minutes the pump runs.

How much does this setup cost?

 

[Dubs83]

With the dual head stenner none of this is needed . Here is all the programing needed. Water level in sump never changes so ATO never comes on during the 4 minutes the pump runs.

That looks so much easier then what I had to do.

Here's a post from my build showing a time lapse of the AWC happening.

 

[reefwiser]

@SethOF You can pick up a Stenner 170DMP4 on eBay for 50 to 70 bucks. You just have to keep your eye out for one. Put it on a watch list and check it all the time. New they are 330 dollars. You also see them in the classified here and on RC. I do industrial controls for a living so this kind of setup I do all the time. If I can limit the use of float valves I will because they are a point of failure. I could not tell you how many times I have had float valves fail thru the 42 years I have been doing this type of work. I always go for as simple a set up as possible.
As you see I am only running the AWC while I am at home as I do not want the wife to deal with any issues. The less "the WIFE " has to do with a aquarium issue the better.

 

[SethOF]

@SethOF You can pick up a Stenner 170DMP4 on eBay for 50 to 70 bucks. You just have to keep your eye out for one. Put it on a watch list and check it all the time. New they are 330 dollars. You also see them in the classified here and on RC. I do industrial controls for a living so this kind of setup I do all the time. If I can limit the use of float valves I will because they are a point of failure. I could not tell you how many times I have had float valves fail thru the 42 years I have been doing this type of work. I always go for as simple a set up as possible.
As you see I am only running the AWC while I am at home as I do not want the wife to deal with any issues. The less "the WIFE " has to do with a aquarium issue the better.

Where in your system do you have the IN and OUT lines to maximize mixing and still run both at the same time?

 

[reefwiser]

They are on opposite ends of my sump area. I have a AIO tank so I have the in new water on one side and the out water on the other side.
They pump evenly into the tank.

 

[Aerixx]

That is spendy, great setup though, I'll have to find one used. Just when I think this hobby can't cost me more money, I find something cool I must have lol

 

[Sm51498]

You could do a reliable one with float switches two standard pumps and a controller. First you have your controller shut off your ato and then have it run a pump to pump water out, say for 1 minute. Then it runs the second pump for say 5 minutes but the float switches are set up so that they cut it off at the standard water level. Then it kicks the ato back on and you are good. Run that at however many intervals you want.

It's not precisely constant but it is super cheap and I trust that more than a peristaltic pump because it is measured and not just calibrated

 

[aquaterra]

I used to have my DOS do water changes of about 500ml every other hour (i took it offline because it was loud and the wife wouldn't let me run the waste line to the drain across the room, hidden by carpet of course)
00:15 it would pull 500mL
00:30 it would add 500mL (and my doser would dose alk)
00:45 my ATO would come on (and my doser would dose cal)
let it stew for 2 hours then repeat.

my ATO only came on from 00:45-next hour every hour.
Fallback ON
OSC 045:00/015:00/000:00 Then ON
If FeedA 005 Then OFF
If FeedC 000 Then OFF
If FeedD 005 Then OFF
If Salt < 33.0 Then OFF

 

[nvert]

Like others have mentioned, I also use a dual stenner pump on my 120g display + 30g sump. 4gal changed out every day at 4am. Won't ever go back to carrying buckets of new salt water up the stairs ever again! Been working well for me now over a year.

 

[jason2459]

I used to run a stenner but it was very loud which I didn't mind but my wife did so it had to go. FYI, It is possible for the flow rate each head pumps to be different. Easy to check with a 1 minute timer and a measuring device.

Then I switched to a liter meter 3 with slave pump. MUCH MUCH quieter. Easy to set how much you want to dose and after calibrating each pump it will automatically do the change through out the day running 255 times.

I now have a DOS attached to my Apex and it is not as loud as the Stenner was but is far from quiet. Calibration is much easier then with the Liter Meter III but the programming can be a bit more involved but not to hard and gives more flexibility on when you want it to do the changes.

For all of them I have a LOT of failsafes for both the new saltmix container and the sump for overflow and run dry events in both locations.