Identification and treatment help for Anthias

[gs0830]

I have identified a single white spot on the head of my male Lyretail Anthias. It is the only fish of 15 with the spot. (pic attached) Not sure if it is ICH or not and would appreciate confirmation and then the recommended course of treatment. I also have started to see similar looking white organisms on the back of the tank (pic attached). Is this in any way related?

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

 

[MnFish1]

Welcome to R2R. More information would be helpful - (how long you've had it, your parameters, etc). But - it looks like either an injury or lymphocystis in an odd spot. Any other behavior changes, fish eating?

 

[gs0830]

Welcome to R2R. More information would be helpful - (how long you've had it, your parameters, etc). But - it looks like either an injury or lymphocystis in an odd spot. Any other behavior changes, fish eating?

Thank you for the response.

Temp: 78
PH: 8.3
Salinity: 1.0253
Alk: 9.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 15.7
Phosphate: .13
calcium: 440
Mag: 1530

Anthias is 4 months old.
He is eating well. swimming normal. All other fish eating well and normal as well

Reading about Mucus plugs?

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you for the response.

Temp: 78
PH: 8.3
Salinity: 1.0253
Alk: 9.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 15.7
Phosphate: .13
calcium: 440
Mag: 1530

Anthias is 4 months old.
He is eating well. swimming normal. All other fish eating well and normal as well

Reading about Mucus plugs?

Thanks for the information. To me this is an injury or lymphocystis. I would continue to provide the excellent parameters you are. Additionally, observe - if more spots develop, or there is any worsening (suggesting bacterial infection of an injury) - repost. You could consider having a broad spectrum antibiotic available (and a hospital tank). Hope this helps.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have identified a single white spot on the head of my male Lyretail Anthias. It is the only fish of 15 with the spot. (pic attached) Not sure if it is ICH or not and would appreciate confirmation and then the recommended course of treatment. I also have started to see similar looking white organisms on the back of the tank (pic attached). Is this in any way related?

this is physical injury and most representative of an urchin puncture or similar specimen. Should heal on its own bit keep an eye on it for healing and not infection. Would not be bad to have some seachem Kanaplex or neoplex on hand should infection arise which will need to be performed in a separate quarantine tank

 

[Weeb]

I have identified a single white spot on the head of my male Lyretail Anthias. It is the only fish of 15 with the spot. (pic attached) Not sure if it is ICH or not and would appreciate confirmation and then the recommended course of treatment. I also have started to see similar looking white organisms on the back of the tank (pic attached). Is this in any way related?

It does indeed look like a puncture wound. Should heal, but as others have said, watch for possible infection.

On a separate note, read through the Fish Health Rough Proper Nutrition post for supplements. Help the fish by improving its immunity and ability to heal wounds by adding supplements for an ill fish to its diet as recommended in the Fish Health Trough Proper Nutrition post. Use especially Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan found in health-food stores and/or pharmacies.

 

[vetteguy53081]

this is not a nutrition issue and while nutrition contributes to health and immunity, healing is key here, not continuously trying to get people to read this article. Lets focus on the issue and how to get this fish healed.
proper diets often found with most foods are contained within and does not require owners to run to a health food store.

 

[MnFish1]

this is not a nutrition issue and while nutrition contributes to health and immunity, healing is key here, not continuously trying to get people to read this article. Lets focus on the issue and how to get this fish healed.
proper diets often found with most foods are contained within and does not require owners to run to a health food store.

@Weeb - I kind of agree with this sentiment. Nutrition is something that will take weeks/months to improve the immune system. I think recommending general supplements is ok - but In most cases of acute issues, I'm not sure that nutrition is going to be a miracle - as compared to a regular feeding. If you have further data - can you start a new thread (PM me) - as I'm interested in the data

 

[Weeb]

@Weeb - I kind of agree with this sentiment. Nutrition is something that will take weeks/months to improve the immune system. I think recommending general supplements is ok - but In most cases of acute issues, I'm not sure that nutrition is going to be a miracle - as compared to a regular feeding. If you have further data - can you start a new thread (PM me) - as I'm interested in the data

Hi @MnFish1

[Sorry for the delayed response. I have had a family emergency.]

You have chosen to express skeptism in the open forum, so I'm perplexed on why you'd suggest a private response. If a new thread is what you'd like, I can do that.

I never proposed that nutrition would be an immediate solution. I don't get where this thought of it taking a short time came from.

I wish my posts were actually read before others 'interpret' my meaning.

Beta Glucan on the other hand has a rather quick effect on the fish's immune system. In The Effects of β – Glucan on Fish Immunity study/review an immune response from ingestion was noted within 7 days. In Beta-glucan: an ideal immunostimulant in aquaculture (a review) it was found that Beta Glucan began improving immunity within 48 hours (by ingestion).

My suggestion that the OP use Beta Glucan for an improved immune response (to fend off bacteria, viruses, and even a small set of parasites (read those linked articles) is well founded.

 

[Weeb]

this is not a nutrition issue and while nutrition contributes to health and immunity, healing is key here, not continuously trying to get people to read this article. Lets focus on the issue and how to get this fish healed.
proper diets often found with most foods are contained within and does not require owners to run to a health food store.

[Sorry for the delayed response. I have been dealing with a family emergency.]

On numerous occasions you have used the phrase, "This is not a nutrition issue. . ." after I posted a reference to the article on Fish Nutrition.

Where do you get the concept that I ever suggested to the OP that the "issue" was a nutritional one? You seem to have some kind of delusional perspective that I can't fathom. I do not suggest in my posts that the fish issue is based on nutrition. READ my post please and don't translate it.

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With regards to "my article" I was guided to make it an article. It is too long for a post. I would have preferred it as an attachment, but. . .

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Many people have referenced the 2022 Quarantine Procedure because it is a fundamental recommendation that hobbyists should be made aware. It is the same perspective that I have in referencing the article.

If more hobbyists use the Quarantine Protocol, fewer fish will be needed by hobbyists (I know of one hobbyist who wanted a Queen Angel for the DT. The hobbyist 'went through' 50+ fish and still didn't get one to live in the DT.) As hobbyists we should be moving toward reducing the demand on wild-caught ornamental marine fishes.

It is in this same vein that I recommend OPs read the Fish Nutrition article. There is good information there for the hobbyist to extend the life of their pets. If fish husbandry in the hobby is improved, fish will live longer and rather that survive, thrive. In this way, there is also a reduction of the demand on wild-caught ornamental marine fish.

So, despite your bullying me, I will continue to encourage hobbyists and OPs to read the article.

 

[vetteguy53081]

[Sorry for the delayed response. I have been dealing with a family emergency.]

On numerous occasions you have used the phrase, "This is not a nutrition issue. . ." after I posted a reference to the article on Fish Nutrition.

Where do you get the concept that I ever suggested to the OP that the "issue" was a nutritional one? You seem to have some kind of delusional perspective that I can't fathom. I do not suggest in my posts that the fish issue is based on nutrition. READ my post please and don't translate it.

------------------

With regards to "my article" I was guided to make it an article. It is too long for a post. I would have preferred it as an attachment, but. . .

-----------------

Many people have referenced the 2022 Quarantine Procedure because it is a fundamental recommendation that hobbyists should be made aware. It is the same perspective that I have in referencing the article.

If more hobbyists use the Quarantine Protocol, fewer fish will be needed by hobbyists (I know of one hobbyist who wanted a Queen Angel for the DT. The hobbyist 'went through' 50+ fish and still didn't get one to live in the DT.) As hobbyists we should be moving toward reducing the demand on wild-caught ornamental marine fishes.

It is in this same vein that I recommend OPs read the Fish Nutrition article. There is good information there for the hobbyist to extend the life of their pets. If fish husbandry in the hobby is improved, fish will live longer and rather that survive, thrive. In this way, there is also a reduction of the demand on wild-caught ornamental marine fish.

So, despite your bullying me, I will continue to encourage hobbyists and OPs to read the article.

There is no bullying intended. This fish has an injury and clearly an injury and not a nutritional issue. Suggested to a newer hobbyist they need supplements from a health store or Pharmacy will not only discourage them and confuse them, but simply not necessary. We are trying to promote healthy fish and resolve issues thereby enjoying the hobby, not scare them.
Most every response from you pushes nutrition post which in many cases irrelevant to the issues responded to. We are trying to resolve an issue and the responses often confuse them.
And to go on to another site and redicule the medic team or call jay old fashioned is insultive and unwarranted.
I agree that nutrition is vital to overall health and immunity health and is welcomed when warranted. I have never commented when it is posted and coincides with a vitamin deficiency or nutritional needs.
In this thread, OP has a fish with injury and not a nutrition issue and my mere comment was " This is injury and not a nutritional issue"

 

[MnFish1]

Beta Glucan on the other hand has a rather quick effect on the fish's immune system. In The Effects of β – Glucan on Fish Immunity study/review an immune response from ingestion was noted within 7 days. In Beta-glucan: an ideal immunostimulant in aquaculture (a review) it was found that Beta Glucan began improving immunity within 48 hours (by ingestion).

Maybe I'm confused - the words above seem to suggest a quick response. But - since it's not directly related to the OP's question - I asked for a PM. I would not use a nutritional supplement in an acute situation - thats just my opinion.

 

[Weeb]

And to go on to another site and redicule the medic team or call jay old fashioned is insultive and unwarranted.

Please elaborate on this. I don't recall ever ridiculing Jay Hemdal. I have bought all of his books on the marine fish hobby.

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I think I see the/my problem here. When I post I will make clear that my recommendations does not replace the recommended treatment, but that my recommendation is in addition to the recommended treatment.

-------------

Bullying is how you came across.

 

[Weeb]

Maybe I'm confused - the words above seem to suggest a quick response. But - since it's not directly related to the OP's question - I asked for a PM. I would not use a nutritional supplement in an acute situation - thats just my opinion.

Agreed. . . to some extent. Along with the treatment (antibiotic, hyposalinity, chemicals) if the fish is eating, then why not include supplements. [Rhetorical]

 

[MnFish1]

@Weeb - this was part of the conclusion from a much more recent article on fish immunity. Though they cited numerous articles which seemed to show an immunostimulatory effect. So my question would be - 'where do you source beta glucans for reef fish?

"The β-glucans often differ in their activities. From thousands of published papers, it has been evidenced that β-glucans from different sources having similarities in structures, molecular weights, and solution strength can differ remarkably. Even the same β-glucan administering through immersion, dietary inclusion, or supplementary injection can respond in different ways (Chen and Seviour, 2007). For this, it is challenging to make a consensus on β-glucan sources, doses, and duration for an individual fish species."

 

[gs0830]

+Update: The white spot has disappeared and Anthias and tankmates are all eating and swimming well.

 

[MnFish1]

+Update: The white spot has disappeared and Anthias and tankmates are all eating and swimming well.

I meant to ask you - is there any chance you were using 'frag glue' - as at least 2 times previously - a lesion like this was found after a person was gluing fresh frags - the white lesion dropped off after a couple days (I happened to do this in one of my own tanks)

 

[Weeb]

So my question would be - 'where do you source beta glucans for reef fish?

Beta Glucan has several differing tertiary configurations, but the majority seem to be on a level playing field.

I always recommend Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan. I get mine online. But health food stores carry it and some pharmacies carry it.

 

[MnFish1]

Beta Glucan has several differing tertiary configurations, but the majority seem to be on a level playing field.

I always recommend Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan. I get mine online. But health food stores carry it and some pharmacies carry it.

Thanks.