If you owned an lfs...

[cmcoker]

Ty I like the hospital/vet approach seems like the right idea. Idk if this would be worth the expense of keeping up levels in copper and what not. Still seems like customers would really be loyal if store helped with qt/medicine.

The problem here is what you just stated "vet approach" I'd be concerned about getting into trouble for this... If you have staff attempting to diagnosis and recommending treatment you are possibly opening up yourself to trouble with the state veterinary board. Legally only veterinarians are supposed to diagnose and offer treatment to animals.
We have a couple fish doctors in our area and I imagine if the they caught wind of that, it might be reported... And I don't know what the penalties may be but it should be investigated before offering that type of service to customers.

 

[mckinleyw]

The problem here is what you just stated "vet approach" I'd be concerned about getting into trouble for this... If you have staff attempting to diagnosis and recommending treatment you are possibly opening up yourself to trouble with the state veterinary board. Legally only veterinarians are supposed to diagnose and offer treatment to animals.
We have a couple fish doctors in our area and I imagine if the they caught wind of that, it might be reported... And I don't know what the penalties may be but it should be investigated before offering that type of service to customers.

I agree just my $ .02 i would love to have something like this. But my q is would it be worth hiring a marine biologist. Lol probably not. That is the only way i see to get around the vet. Thing.

 

[Antics]

The problem here is what you just stated "vet approach" I'd be concerned about getting into trouble for this... If you have staff attempting to diagnosis and recommending treatment you are possibly opening up yourself to trouble with the state veterinary board. Legally only veterinarians are supposed to diagnose and offer treatment to animals.
We have a couple fish doctors in our area and I imagine if the they caught wind of that, it might be reported... And I don't know what the penalties may be but it should be investigated before offering that type of service to customers.

In addition to this, ignore the mindset of an advanced aquarist most of us would consider ourselves, a LFS relies on foot traffic and one time shoppers just like every other business. A portion of the store offering "quarantine" services is the same as putting a sign on the other side of the store saying "probably infected with something nasty". Believe it or not, there is a high cognitive dissonance that occurs when customers buy fish. I don't think any of the posts here have addressed the other downsides of such an operation. If you quarantine a fish at your store and your customer visits 5 different LFS buying from them all the time, you know you're going to sell them a healthy fish that eventually gets sick, and then they blame you. Either a) they realize they're in the wrong (in which case they stop using your quarantine facilities because they see the futility in it) or b) they think you didn't treat their fish adequately, that quarantining is a waste of time, etc. Really a LFS quarantine rental system or what have you only has value to people who have been stringent about full quarantine in their systems already (fish and coral + inverts). The people that have done the latter are most likely going to be hesitant to trust a business owner and his minimum wage employees to correctly care for a fish or coral which could jeopardize years of thorough quarantine protocol.

 

[cobraz]

Frag tanks that let you see rows of frags and labeled $10, $ 20, $ 30 etc.. having to ask how much something is a pain..and for me I can plan what to spend when I know what things cost verses..buying one thing and walking out because of waiting to find out what things cost.. I ran a shop in NH 5 years ago and customers liked when I changed the tanks with to prices either items in tank or rows with cost shown.

 

[mckinleyw]

Frag tanks that let you see rows of frags and labeled $10, $ 20, $ 30 etc.. having to ask how much something is a pain..and for me I can plan what to spend when I know what things cost verses..buying one thing and walking out because of waiting to find out what things cost.. I ran a shop in NH 5 years ago and customers liked when I changed the tanks with to prices either items in tank or rows with cost shown.

There is a store here like that. The only thing i see is the conversation involved with care and everything else. If i go to a lfs i like to have my time with whiever is helping me with my decision. Care and other things are important questions. I dont want to be brushed off because of aomeone who just wants to buy fish... I am lucky enough to have a really good lfs that actually takes the time to discuss things with their clientel and help instead of just selling. I dont mind waiting on them if they are engaged in talking about a certain coral or fish with a newbie. Ive been there. Its up to the true reef enthusiasts to make good reef stores prosper. Ive seen good ones come in and go out fast. The store with rows and prices locally is still knowledgable and helpful. I like the idea just dont want too much impulse buying. They are creatures that need the proper care.

 

[Daniel Strickland]

As a independent LFS owner you unfortunately cannot compete with BRS and other online "big box" type retailers.. As a small business owner myself I have went through the efforts to get a dealership with different company's only to find I could still buy their products cheaper on amazon than I can through them with my "dealer" pricing.. This is what make things really hard on us small business owners.. Customers come to us for advise, experience, and warranty.. then buy from BRS or amazon cause they can sell it cheaper than we can buy it. Not much is worse than making a nice sale to a customer, only to have them bring it back the next day and tell you how much cheaper they can get it on amazon and they need their money back..

I would not pour much money into the high end items.. not at first anyways....

I also have concerns about the QT idea.. While Qt is very popular on this and other Internet forums.. In my experience only a small percentage of people in any particular hobby use Internet forums.. In fact every person in my area I have found that has a reef system does not participate on this or any other forum.. and not a single one of them uses QT.. I would question what the actual percentage of people would use the service you poured so much of your precious start up money into setting up... I like the idea myself, just not sure of the profit potential. And face it if there is no profit you can't do it.. If you do try it I would definitely start small and grow it as the demand grows..

I do really like the idea of a "coffee bar" type area.. maybe a soda machine as well.. huge profit in coffee and sodas.. and it encourages traffic and people staying, plus adds a revenue stream.. Try and create a area where people feel comfortable just hanging out, are out of the way of employees and other customers but are still in sight of point of sale (Point of sale) signage and product. Lingering customers equal sales... As well as creating a area for club meetings..

Find a dry goods product no one else offers in your area, maybe even try and get a exclusive offering from one of your suppliers.. keep a accurate inventory, and return, discount, discard, products that are not selling and replace them with something else.. livestock to. Shelf space/tank space is limited only use it for product that moves quickly.. This also goes against what some people want to see. i.e. rare and hard to get items.. the problem with these is they also equal expensive and slow moving.

Sorry if this is not exactly what you were looking for with your OP just thought I'd give my opinions as a fellow sbo... Good luck whatever you decide...

 

[FishGuyBri]

I would absolutely go and hang out at my LFS if they had a small coffee bar and internet. I would spend more, network with other reefers, and just chat.

 

[Pola0502ds]

Im super lucky, my LFS just finished their quarentine system and they put a couch back there so you can come visit your fish while they QT
I like the aquascaping area though-thats a nice idea
I think I would like:
when you go to home depot or lowes, they have light displays of what it actually looks like...but for reef lighting lol and you can play around with the settings to see if thats the look you want, if it will cover you dimensions, etc.

Which one is this? Blue fish? Reef oasis?

 

[ahiggins]

Which one is this? Blue fish? Reef oasis?

reef oasis

 

[Maritimer]

Can I agree most wholeheartedly about clearly marked pricing?

I've been in one shop where virtually none of the corals were marked, and if I wanted to know the price on something, I had to ask the owner. On a couple of occasions when the owner wasn't there, and I asked an employee, he would whip out his cell phone and call the owner to get the price. That seems like a whole lot of trouble, bother and wasted time that could be easily averted.

~Bruce

 

[Jrodinnola]

I've worked at an LFS for the last 4 years of my college career, so I agree with a lot of what you're saying.. however I still think some of this could be addressed to encourage people to come in.

"As a independent LFS owner you unfortunately cannot compete with BRS and other online "big box" type retailers.. "

- I've seen this firsthand, oh so true. If it came down to it, I may purchase items off of amazon for the same price others pay for it, then offer it at the same price as they do for no profit-- I know that sounds bad, but hear me out. I'd be keeping only a very very limited amount of dry goods, and only offering it as a way to bring customers in so they hopefully purchase livestock.. if you need something and you can get it today for the same price as online.. then hey..

"I also have concerns about the QT idea.. While Qt is very popular on this and other Internet forums.. In my experience only a small percentage of people in any particular hobby use Internet forums..."

-I agree on this point now that you brought it up.. a lot of people I talked to at the last lfs job I had didn't use the local or national forums. I'd have to look into the feasibility of QT'ing all livestock while not affecting fish prices... I need to draw a plan up and see what I can come up with. If that doesn't look like it'll work, maybe only offering treatments to folks who have sick fish?

"I do really like the idea of a "coffee bar" type area.. maybe a soda machine as well.. huge profit in coffee and sodas.. and it encourages traffic and people staying, plus adds a revenue stream.. Lingering customers equal sales.."

-I agree that soft drinks,coffee, chips, candy would be great.. but I wonder if there any health regulations on "open top" foods/beverages like coffee or homemade cookies being in a fish store?

..... keep a accurate inventory, and return, discount, discard, products that are not selling and replace them with something else.. livestock to.

-This. My old lfs boss would keep stuff sitting on the shelves for YEARS taking up real estate. Product cycling, whether live or dry, is very important.

 

[Water Dog]

Open top food / beverages for sale will likely be an invitation for the health department as you are now entering the realm of food service. Regulations will vary from state to state.

 

[bfsaunde]

I would absolutely go and hang out at my LFS if they had a small coffee bar and internet. I would spend more, network with other reefers, and just chat.

A LFS beside a great coffee shop, would be awesome. Can't say the two crowds mix that well, but a guy can wish!!

 

[FishGuyBri]

A LFS beside a great coffee shop, would be awesome. Can't say the two crowds mix that well, but a guy can wish!!

What about a coffee shop and LFS bargain? Two separate shops, separated by a wall of fish tanks that only open on LFS side but visible on coffee side. Talk about stress relief! Two different businesses sharing a wall.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I haven't seen anyone mention what happens when your prized fish died in their care. Qting is good but some fish do die especially with copper

This is why i've never understood why people immediately medicate QT if a fish isn't expressing any illness? I always QT but I observe prior to medication. I don't just toss stuff in. It's not like people get medicated immediately at the doctors office without a diagnosis.

 

[sherbertdipuk]

Everything at my local shop is quarantined and comes with a warranty, as long as you provide a water sample.

They have just opened a workshop downstairs where you can order a made to measure setup, tank, stand and sump. I can't wait for the day when I can afford to have a custom setup! Some of the ones I've seen them building look amazing.

 

[leahfiish]

This is why i've never understood why people immediately medicate QT if a fish isn't expressing any illness? I always QT but I observe prior to medication. I don't just toss stuff in. It's not like people get medicated immediately at the doctors office without a diagnosis.

Well there's vaccines.
Also, some diseases are often lurking. Like ich, it can be there but only pop up when fish are stressed, and even then it might not show on all fish. So your Clownfish are fine, your blenny is fine, but then 6 months later you get a blue hippo tang and decide to qt it because you know it's ich prone. Ttm, pop it in your display and then it still gets ich. It's because your other fish had it. They just didn't show it because they were more hardy or more resilient.

And that's why qt is great, because it gives you a way to make sure your fish are disease free. But for some things it's a moot point unless you treat every fish, and the people who properly do that are in the minority. Most people, if you tell them that you should always qt fish that they buy, even if they buy them from you will say "why, is this fish not healthy?"

 

[bfsaunde]

I like this topic because it really makes me think. I have often wondered how to solve the issue brick and mortar stores have competing with large online retailers. I do know that some small fish stores have gotten into the business of selling online themselves. One needs enough volume to justify the lower prices and the MAP priced items generally sell for a set price everywhere. My degree was a hybrid degree between business administration and information systems. And we dealt with some of this topic in case studies. Most small businesses were able to compete when they offered an experience for the consumer. So the ideas of a coffee bar, hang out area, DIY workshops, local club meets are all great. They may not generate a ton of sales directly, but it offers the experience and builds a relationship with the business. I like that. I value relationships. You have to get the foot traffic and keep it coming. I buy from my local fish store because I want to spend money locally when I can. I do buy online as well. I am somewhat shy and introverted, so I really don't ask the LFS for any advice. I buy books, read endless threads on forums, listen to podcasts and use trial and error. I have many friends and not one of them is into the hobby. Now that I am 15 years into this, I am pretty confident that I can tackle most of the problems I run into and if not, I will come here to see what everyone else says.

Another thing I just thought of about equipment at the LFS is that my LFS will support a lot of the equipment they sell. So, if your Kessil breaks, they will help you get return authorization information and often will have equipment they can loan you while yours is out for repair. This could be invaluable for a customer that doesn't want to invest in backup equipment.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Well there's vaccines.
Also, some diseases are often lurking. Like ich, it can be there but only pop up when fish are stressed, and even then it might not show on all fish. So your Clownfish are fine, your blenny is fine, but then 6 months later you get a blue hippo tang and decide to qt it because you know it's ich prone. Ttm, pop it in your display and then it still gets ich. It's because your other fish had it. They just didn't show it because they were more hardy or more resilient.

And that's why qt is great, because it gives you a way to make sure your fish are disease free. But for some things it's a moot point unless you treat every fish, and the people who properly do that are in the minority. Most people, if you tell them that you should always qt fish that they buy, even if they buy them from you will say "why, is this fish not healthy?"

We should assume incoming fish have ich parasites all the time. But never treat without verification. Medicating healthy fish can be bad for the fishes health.

 

[Jrodinnola]

Most small businesses were able to compete when they offered an experience for the consumer. So the ideas of a coffee bar, hang out area, DIY workshops, local club meets are all great. se says.

This does kinda make sense.. I guess another question would be, what's a good "experience" to have at a lfs? I'd definitely conduct DIY workshops and host meets, but there should also be something to the hang-out part of your statement.
I always wanted a room in my home with a sand floor and beach chairs that sat right in front of a huge tank, with this music playing in the background, lol.
Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but I though would be pretty cool, lol.