Ignorance is not bliss

[D3DPrintedThingz]

75g 2 clown 1 damsel very small bio load. I use tap water (I know I shouldn't) and have 75+ lbs LR and 40 lb live sand. I test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. The API pack included a high range PH test which I've done a few times, around 8.0.

I know why ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate exist in a reef aquarium. I did my research regarding cycling, and took notes of levels during the cycle, and understand the need for a little bit of nitrate in a reef, and my levels have been very, very cooperative. Thank you, small fishes.

I am starting to get some diatoms growing on the live rock, so I am running the lights only about 2 hr a day, because I like how the lights look. No coral yet, so no reason to have them on I guess, other than it make-a-me-happy.

What is this high range PH, why am I testing for it, and how would I go about controlling it? The other 3 I test for naturally occur, and can be adjusted with intervention. I don't understand the PH and am scared to test for it because if it's bad then I won't have the answer of what to do.

 

[bnord]

Welcome and don't worry... pH of 8.0 is a target and 7.9 is the edge of low and 8.3 is great for growing corals... is that your question?
If the cycle has started, you can back off on Am and certainly nitrite - and continue to go slow with new fish
Might be time for a couple of small snails and tiny hermits
know lots of folks who think a nice hardy coral is good for diversity, but only after you ge the lights whee you want them
Do you have control of the light spectrum? can you cut back on whites and reds?

 

[SlugSnorter]

75g 2 clown 1 damsel very small bio load. I use tap water (I know I shouldn't) and have 75+ lbs LR and 40 lb live sand. I test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. The API pack included a high range PH test which I've done a few times, around 8.0.

I know why ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate exist in a reef aquarium. I did my research regarding cycling, and took notes of levels during the cycle, and understand the need for a little bit of nitrate in a reef, and my levels have been very, very cooperative. Thank you, small fishes.

I am starting to get some diatoms growing on the live rock, so I am running the lights only about 2 hr a day, because I like how the lights look. No coral yet, so no reason to have them on I guess, other than it make-a-me-happy.

What is this high range PH, why am I testing for it, and how would I go about controlling it? The other 3 I test for naturally occur, and can be adjusted with intervention. I don't understand the PH and am scared to test for it because if it's bad then I won't have the answer of what to do.

API is not super accurate, HR just means that is has a wider range of PH it can test for. PH is the measure of how basic or acidic something is.

Sidenote: are you doing a fish in cycle? or did the cycle finish. Nitrate shouldn't be too low otherwise you'll get dinos. Diatoms will grow no matter what, they feed on the silicates from new rock. From the sound of it, it seems you have Life rock, and not live rock. If you have live rock, you should leave lights on, so as not to kill the macro algae and other life on the rock.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Water molecules naturally split into Hydrogen ions (H+) and Hydroxide ions (OH-). At a neutral pH of 7, these concentrations are equal.
pH is the level of dissolved hydrogen ions in water. Acidic water (pH < 7) has higher H+ than OH-, while basic water (pH > 7) has lower H+ than OH-.
Without getting specific: Different organisms thrive best at different pH levels, too high or too low will affect the inner workings of the cell.
What’s important to know for reefing is that the ocean sits at a pH of about 8.1, so around there is where you want to be. As mentioned, the high range kit is just for pH of above 7.8, as different chemicals will indicate pH best at different levels.

 

[D3DPrintedThingz]

API is not super accurate, HR just means that is has a wider range of PH it can test for. PH is the measure of how basic or acidic something is.

Sidenote: are you doing a fish in cycle? or did the cycle finish. Nitrate shouldn't be too low otherwise you'll get dinos. Diatoms will grow no matter what, they feed on the silicates from new rock. From the sound of it, it seems you have Life rock, and not live rock. If you have live rock, you should leave lights on, so as not to kill the macro algae and other life on the rock.

Dude - I definitely think it would be awesome to have dinosaurs in my fish tank, what kind will start growing? but on a serious note - I NEED LIGHTS TO SUSTAIN MY BENEFICIAL BACTERIA?? Holy *#$^ all that waiting for 2 months for tank to cycle is going to be wasted? This is the first time I am reading anything like this. Learn something new every day that is for sure.

I have two orphek l3 48" bars, blue and purple. I ran them 8+ hours a day, and then brown spots (I believe them to be diatoms) started covering sand and rock, so I bumped the lights down to about 2 hr a day. i have no "control" of the spectrum, but there isn't any red or white lights in the led bar?

I had no idea you had to have lights to sustain the beneficial bacteria population. It was dry rock that was put in with a single piece of LR and live sand. Cycled the tank with the yellowtail damsel - haven't had ammonia nitrite for couple months, but nitrate really doesn't ever get out of control. Not sure when to do water changes, as kind of waiting on nitrates to bump up or some kind of smell or visual sign that water is getting bad.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Bacteria doesn’t need light to grow, what @SlugSnorter meant was that light was needed for any of the photosynthetic hitchhikers to grow.
I’d welcome algae in a new tank - it means the tank is maturing and it helps the overall ecosystem by controlling nutrients until you get corals, which typically can outcompete the algae.
I had been doing weekly water changes from the start.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Dude - I definitely think it would be awesome to have dinosaurs in my fish tank, what kind will start growing? but on a serious note - I NEED LIGHTS TO SUSTAIN MY BENEFICIAL BACTERIA?? Holy *#$^ all that waiting for 2 months for tank to cycle is going to be wasted? This is the first time I am reading anything like this. Learn something new every day that is for sure.

I have two orphek l3 48" bars, blue and purple. I ran them 8+ hours a day, and then brown spots (I believe them to be diatoms) started covering sand and rock, so I bumped the lights down to about 2 hr a day. i have no "control" of the spectrum, but there isn't any red or white lights in the led bar?

I had no idea you had to have lights to sustain the beneficial bacteria population. It was dry rock that was put in with a single piece of LR and live sand. Cycled the tank with the yellowtail damsel - haven't had ammonia nitrite for couple months, but nitrate really doesn't ever get out of control. Not sure when to do water changes, as kind of waiting on nitrates to bump up or some kind of smell or visual sign that water is getting bad.

not for beneficial bac, (at least not the stuff in bottled bac) but it is needed for things like macro algae (among other stuff) that comes from live rock.

Diatoms will grow once you have lights on, they are very competitive in high silicate environments (like new dry rock) but are harmless and good CUC food.

I would recommend doing water changes weekly or biweekly

In the future, keep in mind fish in cycling isn't great btw.

get a CUC (clean up crew) to eat the dinos. I would recommend

2 nassarius vibex (cleans sand well, rarely rocks and eats scraps but no algae)

8 Florida ceriths (cleans sand decently, sometimes rocks/glass and eats scraps but mostly algae)

4 trochus snails of the same species so they can breed (cleans rocks and maybe glass, eats most algae, may have trouble righting itself if flipped)

 

[D3DPrintedThingz]

not for beneficial bac, (at least not the stuff in bottled bac) but it is needed for things like macro algae (among other stuff) that comes from live rock.

Diatoms will grow once you have lights on, they are very competitive in high silicate environments (like new dry rock) but are harmless and good CUC food.

I would recommend doing water changes weekly or biweekly

In the future, keep in mind fish in cycling isn't great btw.

get a CUC (clean up crew) to eat the dinos. I would recommend

2 nassarius vibex (cleans sand well, rarely rocks and eats scraps but no algae)

8 Florida ceriths (cleans sand decently, sometimes rocks/glass and eats scraps but mostly algae)

4 trochus snails of the same species so they can breed (cleans rocks and maybe glass, eats most algae, may have trouble righting itself if flipped)

I can't defer blame 100%, but it was a "bottled bac doesn't work buy a fish/live sand/live rock" recommendation from LFS. I was excited, to say the least.. But I will hopefully not need to cycle a tank again, and if I would need to I now know there is beneficial bacteria in bottles that will actually work. They said put the damsel in there, problem solved, 100% success rate. Throw some live sand and a piece of live rock, and the tank should "cycle" pretty quickly and harmlessly as there is already bacteria in the sand and on the rock you buy ($45 rock/ 5 lb at $9 a lb, they made some $$$ of me this day) The last time I reefed was around 2012, and I cycled with a green chromis, (same LFS, same advice on initial set up) and had that fish for the duration of the tank until it got torn down when I was off to college, so I didn't think anything of it this time around. Lots of changes in the hobby in the last 10 yrs. I take out the little damsel and pet her (...not really) and give her special fish food treats (frozen mysis shrimp cubes, thawed out and tossed in, will eventually breed and supplement) and always tell her thank you for introducing poop into my tanks ecosystem. She forgives me I think, but yes I am definitely in the 'lesson learned' category.

I don't have any macro algae yet, like a chaeto ball in a sump - does this grow on rock? I was thinking the surface area of live rock is where the ammonia/nitrite eating bacteria live, didn't realize it could also host macro algae. I will kick up the lights a little bit more, I have 5 hermit crabs and 2 nassaruis snails. The hermits love the diatoms, they eat them like candy.

Can diatoms get out of control, and become harmful? And am I reading this right that trochus snails can breed in my tank? So I could get free trochus snails from them gettin it on ??

 

[D3DPrintedThingz]

Bacteria doesn’t need light to grow, what @SlugSnorter meant was that light was needed for any of the photosynthetic hitchhikers to grow.
I’d welcome algae in a new tank - it means the tank is maturing and it helps the overall ecosystem by controlling nutrients until you get corals, which typically can outcompete the algae.
I had been doing weekly water changes from the start.

I am waiting to change my water until the nitrates show something past 10 PPM. They basically have plateud. I feed 2x daily. I can definitely adjust to a weekly schedule. What are your nitrate levels when you change the water? Are you looking for the nitrates to read 0 PPM after the water change, or should some be left in there?

 

[Sharkbait19]

not for beneficial bac, (at least not the stuff in bottled bac) but it is needed for things like macro algae (among other stuff) that comes from live rock.

Diatoms will grow once you have lights on, they are very competitive in high silicate environments (like new dry rock) but are harmless and good CUC food.

I would recommend doing water changes weekly or biweekly

In the future, keep in mind fish in cycling isn't great btw.

get a CUC (clean up crew) to eat the dinos. I would recommend

2 nassarius vibex (cleans sand well, rarely rocks and eats scraps but no algae)

8 Florida ceriths (cleans sand decently, sometimes rocks/glass and eats scraps but mostly algae)

4 trochus snails of the same species so they can breed (cleans rocks and maybe glass, eats most algae, may have trouble righting itself if flipped)

Trochus are really good - mine spends most of the day on the glass doing work.

I can't defer blame 100%, but it was a "bottled bac doesn't work buy a fish/live sand/live rock" recommendation from LFS. I was excited, to say the least.. But I will hopefully not need to cycle a tank again, and if I would need to I now know there is beneficial bacteria in bottles that will actually work. They said put the damsel in there, problem solved, 100% success rate. Throw some live sand and a piece of live rock, and the tank should "cycle" pretty quickly and harmlessly as there is already bacteria in the sand and on the rock you buy ($45 rock/ 5 lb at $9 a lb, they made some $$$ of me this day) The last time I reefed was around 2012, and I cycled with a green chromis, (same LFS, same advice on initial set up) and had that fish for the duration of the tank until it got torn down when I was off to college, so I didn't think anything of it this time around. Lots of changes in the hobby in the last 10 yrs. I take out the little damsel and pet her (...not really) and give her special fish food treats (frozen mysis shrimp cubes, thawed out and tossed in, will eventually breed and supplement) and always tell her thank you for introducing poop into my tanks ecosystem. She forgives me I think, but yes I am definitely in the 'lesson learned' category.

I don't have any macro algae yet, like a chaeto ball in a sump - does this grow on rock? I was thinking the surface area of live rock is where the ammonia/nitrite eating bacteria live, didn't realize it could also host macro algae. I will kick up the lights a little bit more, I have 5 hermit crabs and 2 nassaruis snails. The hermits love the diatoms, they eat them like candy.

Can diatoms get out of control, and become harmful? And am I reading this right that trochus snails can breed in my tank? So I could get free trochus snails from them gettin it on ??

Algae and nitrifying bacteria both make food out of nitrogenous waste like ammonia and nitrite.
Diatoms usually starve themselves out pretty fast and aren’t harmful, just ugly.
Snails will breed, but not all will make it as fish will eat the juvies.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I am waiting to change my water until the nitrates show something past 10 PPM. They basically have plateud. I feed 2x daily. I can definitely adjust to a weekly schedule. What are your nitrate levels when you change the water? Are you looking for the nitrates to read 0 PPM after the water change, or should some be left in there?

Unless you did a 100% water change, nitrates won’t truly read 0. Likely the bacteria is working as efficiently as the fish produce waste, so it isn’t going up or down. Been a while since I checked but I’m pretty sure it reads under 10.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I can't defer blame 100%, but it was a "bottled bac doesn't work buy a fish/live sand/live rock" recommendation from LFS. I was excited, to say the least.. But I will hopefully not need to cycle a tank again, and if I would need to I now know there is beneficial bacteria in bottles that will actually work. They said put the damsel in there, problem solved, 100% success rate. Throw some live sand and a piece of live rock, and the tank should "cycle" pretty quickly and harmlessly as there is already bacteria in the sand and on the rock you buy ($45 rock/ 5 lb at $9 a lb, they made some $$$ of me this day) The last time I reefed was around 2012, and I cycled with a green chromis, (same LFS, same advice on initial set up) and had that fish for the duration of the tank until it got torn down when I was off to college, so I didn't think anything of it this time around. Lots of changes in the hobby in the last 10 yrs. I take out the little damsel and pet her (...not really) and give her special fish food treats (frozen mysis shrimp cubes, thawed out and tossed in, will eventually breed and supplement) and always tell her thank you for introducing poop into my tanks ecosystem. She forgives me I think, but yes I am definitely in the 'lesson learned' category.

I don't have any macro algae yet, like a chaeto ball in a sump - does this grow on rock? I was thinking the surface area of live rock is where the ammonia/nitrite eating bacteria live, didn't realize it could also host macro algae. I will kick up the lights a little bit more, I have 5 hermit crabs and 2 nassaruis snails. The hermits love the diatoms, they eat them like candy.

Can diatoms get out of control, and become harmful? And am I reading this right that trochus snails can breed in my tank? So I could get free trochus snails from them gettin it on ??

that LFS seems a little sketchy. Most "live sand" is just marketing. What kind of live rock do you have? is it "life" live rock?

anyways, algae will grow no matter what you do, macro algae can be introduced from live rock or introduced yourself. Macro like Chaeto grows super quickly and takes up a lot of nutrients, so its best left in a sump, but others are more tame and manageable.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Trochus are really good - mine spends most of the day on the glass doing work.

Algae and nitrifying bacteria both make food out of nitrogenous waste like ammonia and nitrite.
Diatoms usually starve themselves out pretty fast and aren’t harmful, just ugly.
Snails will breed, but not all will make it as fish will eat the juvies.

Most have a decently long planktonic stage that gets destroyed by filters. Since Trochus use broadcast mating and have such a short planktonic stage, they are the most likely to have any successful spawnings.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I am waiting to change my water until the nitrates show something past 10 PPM. They basically have plateud. I feed 2x daily. I can definitely adjust to a weekly schedule. What are your nitrate levels when you change the water? Are you looking for the nitrates to read 0 PPM after the water change, or should some be left in there?

Wcs are not just about removing nitrates, but other organic and inorganic compounds and adding nutrients that get depleted from the water over time back in. I would recommend getting the CUC I recommended (no more for now) and making lights on a bit longer.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Wcs are not just about removing nitrates, but other organic and inorganic compounds and adding nutrients that get depleted from the water over time back in. I would recommend getting the CUC I recommended (no more for now) and making lights on a bit longer.

Good point on the nitrates - nice thing about the test is that it essentially serves as an indicator for all compounds that can only be removed by w/c

 

[D3DPrintedThingz]

that LFS seems a little sketchy. Most "live sand" is just marketing. What kind of live rock do you have? is it "life" live rock?

anyways, algae will grow no matter what you do, macro algae can be introduced from live rock or introduced yourself. Macro like Chaeto grows super quickly and takes up a lot of nutrients, so its best left in a sump, but others are more tame and manageable.

I just feel like ordering fish/coral off the internet is risky, but I see enough people doing it that I can feel confident in their results.

What is 'life' live rock? The one piece I bought was covered in purple coralline algae, it just sits in a huge tub that acts as all the stores DT sump, and they keep the LR in there. It should have had a ton of bacteria on it, as I dug and tried to grab a rock that was in the bottom. Didn't want to go fishing too deep as I know there are critters that can hurt if you get ahold of them the wrong way.

 

[D3DPrintedThingz]

Wcs are not just about removing nitrates, but other organic and inorganic compounds and adding nutrients that get depleted from the water over time back in. I would recommend getting the CUC I recommended (no more for now) and making lights on a bit longer.

I texted the wife told her "TURN THE LIGHTS ON!!!!!!!!" will aim for 8 hrs a day, and let the diatoms run.

Going to fish store after work today. Got the list on a notepad. I remember the snails falling off the glass and being upside down. Oh how fun it is to reach in there and get those silly snails back upright.

will it be ok to leave the 5 hermits and 2 nassaruis in there with the additional CUC

 

[SlugSnorter]

I texted the wife told her "TURN THE LIGHTS ON!!!!!!!!" will aim for 8 hrs a day, and let the diatoms run.

Going to fish store after work today. Got the list on a notepad. I remember the snails falling off the glass and being upside down. Oh how fun it is to reach in there and get those silly snails back upright.

will it be ok to leave the 5 hermits and 2 nassaruis in there with the additional CUC

if you already have two nass should be fine not getting more. Don't wanna be rude but nas can flip themselves pretty well.

What kind of hermits? hermits may eat snails for their shells, even if other shells are available. If it were me, I would place the hermits in your refugeium and have the new snails in the display

 

[Sharkbait19]

I texted the wife told her "TURN THE LIGHTS ON!!!!!!!!" will aim for 8 hrs a day, and let the diatoms run.

Going to fish store after work today. Got the list on a notepad. I remember the snails falling off the glass and being upside down. Oh how fun it is to reach in there and get those silly snails back upright.

will it be ok to leave the 5 hermits and 2 nassaruis in there with the additional CUC

Totally safe.
Astreas are a pain for that reason, they flip over, die, and get eaten. Circle of life I guess.

I just feel like ordering fish/coral off the internet is risky, but I see enough people doing it that I can feel confident in their results.

What is 'life' live rock? The one piece I bought was covered in purple coralline algae, it just sits in a huge tub that acts as all the stores DT sump, and they keep the LR in there. It should have had a ton of bacteria on it, as I dug and tried to grab a rock that was in the bottom. Didn't want to go fishing too deep as I know there are critters that can hurt if you get ahold of them the wrong way.

Life rock is rock by the company Caribsea which has inactivated bacteria which “comes alive” once it is in water.
Generally live rock is best but it also comes with hitchhikers- good or bad.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I just feel like ordering fish/coral off the internet is risky, but I see enough people doing it that I can feel confident in their results.

What is 'life' live rock? The one piece I bought was covered in purple coralline algae, it just sits in a huge tub that acts as all the stores DT sump, and they keep the LR in there. It should have had a ton of bacteria on it, as I dug and tried to grab a rock that was in the bottom. Didn't want to go fishing too deep as I know there are critters that can hurt if you get ahold of them the wrong way.

life rock is basically dry rock with some purple colored bacteria paint on it. Not harmful, but overpriced for what it is.