Im done with ecotech who makes a reliable led?

[45ZoaGarden]

The older generation of hydras have both. The old hydra 26. Hydra 52, hydra 26hd, and hydra 52hd all have heat sinks and a fan.

 

[Sarah24!]

They don’t use heat sinks because it isn’t as effective in cooking internal temperature. Nothing works better to keep things cool than air blowing over it. I used to build remote controlled race cars. My last one was all electric. With its 4 horsepower motor and super high gearing, the motor would hit 180° in two passes. First I tried a heat sink which helped. It have me enough time to get it back to me after the second pass. When I swapped it out for a heat sink with a fan, I was able to double my run time. Heat sinks just disperse the heat over time but the heat still stays there. Sure it helps but it isn’t nearly as effective as heat sinks AND a fan.
with a heat sink and a fan, the sinks will bring the heat away from the lights internal boards. With that heat brought away, the fan would cool the insides as well as cool the heat sinks. This would easily let you give the lights much more power, let the lights run longer, and keep the inside cooler to ensure longevity of the light. Sure you guys don’t like the idea of a fan but it has a purpose..:

lol I find it odd that nobody can out do you. But I know your wrong on this. Your trying to tell me, that a tiny fan will out do A full length alum heat sink the length of the light? If so you may wanna study physics. Alum is one of the most heat removing materials. Second why do you think major power amps which have class A circuits use heat sinks alum heat sinks. Which these cost maybe 10,000 plus, such as krell, classe A, Macintosh?

oh let’s mention rc cars, lol umm I totally call garbage. As a point of fact I have an rc helicopter, that runs a 250hv amp speed controller, with a 14 cell 6500 180 amp discharge. I’m using a Kontronik 750-50xl motor which will still give me a head speed of 3500, which puts out 4.5kw and my rotor blades are 780mm. I’m running a kontronik kosmik 250hv speed controller. I’m running 14 cells, much much higher output, and no electric fans. So how are you gonna figure this on out? Yes rc cars are fast (not as fast as 700 class helicopters, ducted fans or turbines). Now will be honest all of these were my older brothers and he has since gone to turbines, and I inherited his tamiya collection (they sit on my shelf they are classics), and he has shown me how to fly. Now I can’t do the 3D tricks but I can fly like a normal helicopter.
Higher class wiring and better electronics use heat sinks, look at high end stereo amps, krell, and it puts to shame in a major way when it comes to quality, plus the amps generate 30 times the heat, standard passive heat sinks on amps can go past 150 degrees. It’s all about the surface area covered.

 

[oreo54]

with a heat sink and a fan, the sinks will bring the heat away from the lights internal boards. With that heat brought away, the fan would cool the insides as well as cool the heat sinks. This would easily let you give the lights much more power, let the lights run longer, and keep the inside cooler to ensure longevity of the light. Sure you guys don’t like the idea of a fan but it has a purpose..:

10 sq inches /watt..
Rule of thumb for passive heat sinks.
Also galvanize them, increases surface area..

Other trick is a good differential between ambient and sink..
and good thermal transfer between die and sink.

Passive vs active is more a trade off between cost and design (smaller or bulkier).

10sq " seems like a lot but if one looks at it like this, not so bad:

1 sq" of Al w/ 9 2" tall fins..approx 20 sq inches. good for "3W class" LED at normal drive currents..

There are other material s (and frankly types of Al alloy) that can shrink that foot print.

From a repair standpoint in the real world.. fans aren't err.. acceptable for the most part. Increases maintenance cost..

 

[45ZoaGarden]

No, no, no. Reread my post. I said fans in conjunction with heat sinks is better than heat sinks alone. And aluminum doesn’t remove heat. Aluminum is a conductor. This means that aluminum simply transmits heat to a different location. Just as you grab a hot pan in the oven, the heat is transmitted to your hand. This is basically what heat sinks do. They move heat away. If you had a fan blowing on the heat sinks, the sinks would cool off and be able to take more heat away.
Lol my 8lb rc truck ran 75 miles an hour. My buddy’s cars do twice that. I used a castle creations mamba x, a 2,200 kv motor that turned 75,000 rpm

lol I find it odd that nobody can out do you. But I know your wrong on this. Your trying to tell me, that a tiny fan will out do A full length alum heat sink the length of the light? If so you may wanna study physics. Alum is one of the most heat removing materials. Second why do you think major power amps which have class A circuits use heat sinks alum heat sinks. Which these cost maybe 10,000 plus, such as krell, classe A, Macintosh?

oh let’s mention rc cars, lol umm I totally call garbage. As a point of fact I have an rc helicopter, that runs a 250hv amp speed controller, with a 14 cell 6500 180 amp discharge. I’m using a Kontronik 750-50xl motor which will still give me a head speed of 3500, which puts out 4.5kw and my rotor blades are 780mm. I’m running a kontronik kosmik 250hv speed controller. I’m running 14 cells, much much higher output, and no electric fans. So how are you gonna figure this on out? Yes rc cars are fast (not as fast as 700 class helicopters, ducted fans or turbines). Now will be honest all of these were my older brothers and he has since gone to turbines, and I inherited his tamiya collection (they sit on my shelf they are classics), and he has shown me how to fly. Now I can’t do the 3D tricks but I can fly like a normal helicopter.
Higher class wiring and better electronics use heat sinks, look at high end stereo amps, krell, and it puts to shame in a major way when it comes to quality, plus the amps generate 30 times the heat, standard passive heat sinks on amps can go past 150 degrees. It’s all about the surface area covered.

 

[oreo54]

Physics..

 

[oreo54]

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/605/1/012005/pdf

 

[Sarah24!]

No, no, no. Reread my post. I said fans in conjunction with heat sinks is better than heat sinks alone. And aluminum doesn’t remove heat. Aluminum is a conductor. This means that aluminum simply transmits heat to a different location. Just as you grab a hot pan in the oven, the heat is transmitted to your hand. This is basically what heat sinks do. They move heat away. If you had a fan blowing on the heat sinks, the sinks would cool off and be able to take more heat away.
Lol my 8lb rc truck ran 75 miles an hour. My buddy’s cars do twice that. I used a castle creations mamba x, a 2,200 kv motor that turned 75,000 rpm

Yes that is true sorry I missed that section. Well from a mechanical performance if you had 780mm of rotor blades spinning at 75,000 rpm things would go bad quickly. I can’t think of anything that has 75,000 rpm are you thinking 7,500? Castle creations is (they are good), but no where near the kontronik. Helicopter motors are pure toque, they have to be because they have to fight wind resistance and change the pitch which will generate lots of heat. My telemetry shows that most of the time after a flight, I’m just over 220 degrees. Granted, I won’t need fans as well since it flies through the air. Which we know will remove heat as well. I have not seen an 8 pound car (doesn’t mean they don’t exist), but the 780 size helicopter is close to 20 pounds. But to keep this post and within directions to respect the op, each light designed will have available different methods to cool. Radions use a fan to updraft the air to cool it. Sorry I can’t say this is an intelligent design, sucking salty air in well is sooo bad. But other lights as you said use fans and heat sinks some just heat sinks. I won’t lie my heat sinks on my lights will burn you if you touch them at certain periods. Are they soo hot you can’t hold them (me lol yeah they are hot), but others in my family just set their hands on them and no big deal. But if the op wants to keep his current setup, the best option is a heat sink controlled light. If he can’t solve the condensation problem this problem with lights will be ongoing.
An rc car going 75 is pretty fast, I personally can’t do it because I’m not coordinated enough, but my brother has had the helicopters up to 140. Now it’s unfair because aircraft will always be faster than cars, but it’s crazy when even I do it they are around 80mph if we use the speed gun, and telmetry system on the helicopters. Which these are slow compared to his dual turbine jet he flies.

 

[sp1187]

AquaRay's from AAP.
Water proof
5 year replacement warranty. (you aren't waiting for yours to be repaired.)
no fans needed.

AquaRay LED Lighting | Reef & Planted | AquaBeam | GroBeam

www.americanaquariumproducts.com

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Yes that is true sorry I missed that section. Well from a mechanical performance if you had 780mm of rotor blades spinning at 75,000 rpm things would go bad quickly. I can’t think of anything that has 75,000 rpm are you thinking 7,500? Castle creations is (they are good), but no where near the kontronik. Helicopter motors are pure toque, they have to be because they have to fight wind resistance and change the pitch which will generate lots of heat. My telemetry shows that most of the time after a flight, I’m just over 220 degrees. Granted, I won’t need fans as well since it flies through the air. Which we know will remove heat as well. I have not seen an 8 pound car (doesn’t mean they don’t exist), but the 780 size helicopter is close to 20 pounds. But to keep this post and within directions to respect the op, each light designed will have available different methods to cool. Radions use a fan to updraft the air to cool it. Sorry I can’t say this is an intelligent design, sucking salty air in well is sooo bad. But other lights as you said use fans and heat sinks some just heat sinks. I won’t lie my heat sinks on my lights will burn you if you touch them at certain periods. Are they soo hot you can’t hold them (me lol yeah they are hot), but others in my family just set their hands on them and no big deal. But if the op wants to keep his current setup, the best option is a heat sink controlled light. If he can’t solve the condensation problem this problem with lights will be ongoing.
An rc car going 75 is pretty fast, I personally can’t do it because I’m not coordinated enough, but my brother has had the helicopters up to 140. Now it’s unfair because aircraft will always be faster than cars, but it’s crazy when even I do it they are around 80mph if we use the speed gun, and telmetry system on the helicopters. Which these are slow compared to his dual turbine jet he flies.

It’s an rc car motor, not a helicopter. The car motors are built for rpm while helicopters are built for torque. Heres a pic of my old trucks plate which shows its rpm limit

 

[robbyg]

They don’t use heat sinks because it isn’t as effective in cooking internal temperature. Nothing works better to keep things cool than air blowing over it. I used to build remote controlled race cars. My last one was all electric. With its 4 horsepower motor and super high gearing, the motor would hit 180° in two passes. First I tried a heat sink which helped. It have me enough time to get it back to me after the second pass. When I swapped it out for a heat sink with a fan, I was able to double my run time. Heat sinks just disperse the heat over time but the heat still stays there. Sure it helps but it isn’t nearly as effective as heat sinks AND a fan.
with a heat sink and a fan, the sinks will bring the heat away from the lights internal boards. With that heat brought away, the fan would cool the insides as well as cool the heat sinks. This would easily let you give the lights much more power, let the lights run longer, and keep the inside cooler to ensure longevity of the light. Sure you guys don’t like the idea of a fan but it has a purpose..:

Sorry, but you kind of got the design priorities wrong. The internal Junction temperature of any semiconductor like an LED will get super hot in a matter of milliseconds. A fan simply cannot remove the concentrated heat fast enough. The only thing that can do that is bolting or soldering it down to a piece of metal, ideally copper but Aluminum works with slightly less efficiency but good enough.

In an ideal world you would want that Heatsink to be big enough that ambient air in the room can cool off the metal faster than the device can heat it up. This is why very expensive gear will have huge heatsinks. As you decrease the size of the heatsink you end up having to use fans to move more ambient air over the metal to compensate for the smaller heatsink size. In an ideal device you would have no Fans as it is a point of failure and adds the need for physical maintenance of the device (clean the fan). Also when the Fan starts to lose airflow the semiconductors get hotter. If the fan fails, the device if properly designed will shutdown and be unusable. That is not something that can happen with a Fan less design!


The smaller the Heatsink is the larger or faster the fans have to be at moving air, but on the flip side is that fans are cheap and copper and Aluminum are expensive. In almost all devices that use semiconductors you can just about tell the level of quality of the device by how much dependency there is on Fans versus nice big heatsinks. You know that heavy feeling that a high quality amplifier has versus a cheap light weight amplifier of the same wattage? Yeah thats one of the the reasons why the Heavy one is so bloody expensive.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Sorry, but you kind of got the design priorities wrong. The internal Junction temperature of any semiconductor like an LED will get super hot in a matter of milliseconds. A fan simply cannot remove the concentrated heat fast enough. The only thing that can do that is bolting or soldering it down to a piece of metal, ideally copper but Aluminum works with slightly less efficiency but good enough.

In an ideal world you would want that Heatsink to be big enough that ambient air in the room can cool off the metal faster than the device can heat it up. This is why very expensive gear will have huge heatsinks. As you decrease the size of the heatsink you end up having to use fans to move more ambient air over the metal to compensate for the smaller heatsink size. In an ideal device you would have no Fans as it is a point of failure and adds the need for physical maintenance of the device (clean the fan). Also when the Fan starts to lose airflow the semiconductors get hotter. If the fan fails the device, if properly designed will shutdown and be unusable. That is not something that cannot happen with a Fan less design!


The smaller the Heatsink is the larger or faster the fans have to be at moving air, but on the flip side Fans are cheap and copper and Aluminum are expensive. In almost all devices that use semiconductors you can just about tell the level of quality of the device by how much dependency there is on Fans versus nice big heatsinks. You know that heavy feeling that a high quality amplifier has versus a cheap light weight amplifier of the same wattage? Yeah thats one of the the reasons why the Heavy one is so bloody expensive.

I said to use both. Heat sinks are more efficient with a fan.

 

[naterealbig]

I said to use both. Heat sinks are more efficient with a fan.

Right. The argument here is that any assembly (specifically an LED fixture) requiring a heat sink is (much) more reliable without one.

 

[christian321uy]

i have Ai hydra running 3+ years now have had no problems with moisture.

 

[MnFish1]

No, no, no. Reread my post. I said fans in conjunction with heat sinks is better than heat sinks alone. And aluminum doesn’t remove heat. Aluminum is a conductor. This means that aluminum simply transmits heat to a different location. Just as you grab a hot pan in the oven, the heat is transmitted to your hand. This is basically what heat sinks do. They move heat away. If you had a fan blowing on the heat sinks, the sinks would cool off and be able to take more heat away.
Lol my 8lb rc truck ran 75 miles an hour. My buddy’s cars do twice that. I used a castle creations mamba x, a 2,200 kv motor that turned 75,000 rpm

This sounds suspiciously like one of those posts that were made that air conditioners dont remove humidity - semantics - Or am I wrong?

Of course - Aluminum + a fan is going to be better than a fan alone - or aluminum alone. The question is - which does the lions share. I think the point was that many people don't like the failure of fans - and think aluminum alone would work fine.

and - the terms 'aluminum removes heat' is equivalent to 'aluminum conducts heat'.

 

[MnFish1]

Physics..

Now post one for 'Reliability'. BTW - Of course Im not a big fan of heat sinks - I ditched my AI - before they were taken over by Echotech - but fans and the product seem to work fine for me. The problem I guess I have with your 'physics' is that there is nothing with only a fan - which is part of the discussion

 

[MnFish1]

Right. The argument here is that any assembly (specifically an LED fixture) requiring a heat sink is (much) more reliable without one.

I think you meant to say -

The argument here is that any assembly (specifically an LED fixture) requiring a heat sink is (much) more reliable THAN without one

if not - I dont understand what you're saying.

 

[oreo54]

I think you meant to say -

The argument here is that any assembly (specifically an LED fixture) requiring a heat sink is (much) more reliable THAN without one

if not - I dont understand what you're saying.

You still need aheat sink w/ a fan.. only it can be smaller.. and then cheaper..substuting a $1 fan for a $20 's worth of heat sink..if not more.

 

[Sarah24!]

Sorry, but you kind of got the design priorities wrong. The internal Junction temperature of any semiconductor like an LED will get super hot in a matter of milliseconds. A fan simply cannot remove the concentrated heat fast enough. The only thing that can do that is bolting or soldering it down to a piece of metal, ideally copper but Aluminum works with slightly less efficiency but good enough.

In an ideal world you would want that Heatsink to be big enough that ambient air in the room can cool off the metal faster than the device can heat it up. This is why very expensive gear will have huge heatsinks. As you decrease the size of the heatsink you end up having to use fans to move more ambient air over the metal to compensate for the smaller heatsink size. In an ideal device you would have no Fans as it is a point of failure and adds the need for physical maintenance of the device (clean the fan). Also when the Fan starts to lose airflow the semiconductors get hotter. If the fan fails the device, if properly designed will shutdown and be unusable. That is not something that cannot happen with a Fan less design!


The smaller the Heatsink is the larger or faster the fans have to be at moving air, but on the flip side Fans are cheap and copper and Aluminum are expensive. In almost all devices that use semiconductors you can just about tell the level of quality of the device by how much dependency there is on Fans versus nice big heatsinks. You know that heavy feeling that a high quality amplifier has versus a cheap light weight amplifier of the same wattage? Yeah thats one of the the reasons why the Heavy one is so bloody expensive.

Oh my goodness your British oh I love it I must say bob is definitely your uncle.

 

[Sarah24!]

It’s an rc car motor, not a helicopter. The car motors are built for rpm while helicopters are built for torque. Heres a pic of my old trucks plate which shows its rpm limit

That doesn’t show your rpm limit, all your showing is the motor and speed controller. I
Hope you don’t think because the battery says 5000 milliamperers you think that’s the rpms. Nobody would see or could monitor the rpms in the vehicle, that’s why it’s on the transmitter lol. It’s why there are devices called telemetry. Lower class electronics use fans, medium use fans and heat sinks and higher end use nothing but large heat sinks. Is this true for all applications no, but I’d feel like a very unethical person if I referred lights to the op that are not suitable for his needs. The whole point is for him to have proper professional advise. Not to mention fans are not super quiet, specially when the house is super quiet.

 

[naterealbig]

I think you meant to say -

The argument here is that any assembly (specifically an LED fixture) requiring a heat sink is (much) more reliable THAN without one

if not - I dont understand what you're saying.

You're right - I blundered my words. I meant to convey the idea that the assembly loses reliability when a fan is added/necessary.

(In contrast to the idea that a fan + heat sink is more efficient)