Importants of Check Valves!

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mmw64

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I posted a warning thread that apparently was too specific to a specific product as it never showed up on today's posts. So I will try again. Most of you will say "well dah" but for the few like myself I will post this reminder. Check valves should ALWAYS be used if there is a possibility of water siphoning back and at the least shorting out equipment or in my case melting down equipment at 1:00 A.M. It also caused a small fire. I think since most equipment is now housed in sumps this important information might be over looked. Just a reminder to keep others from experiencing what I did because of an over site. Packaging on product didn't mention the importance of check valves either.
 
Check valves have a mixed reputation in this hobby. Many people don't use them because they tend to fail, even when cleaned regularly. I work in the Living Seashore exhibit in the National Aquarium in Baltimore. We have check valves on some of our smaller displays. I had shut off the pump to one of the displays to do some siphoning. This display had check valves, which are cleaned and maintained regularly as a part of our maintenance schedule. Even despite this, both of the valves were stuck open, and the sump almost overflowed.

Personally, I would never rely on check valves on any plumbing for any reason. If you design a system that will overflow without check valves, in my opinion the design is flawed. A much more reliable way to manage back flow is to plumb the system appropriately. Have the output from the sump only slightly below the water level, or drill a hole in the return line slightly below the water level to break the siphon if the return pump were to be shut off. Set your sump level so that once the return pump is off and all the water has back-siphoned that can, it is not overflowing.
 
There are so many ways to design into a system anti-siphon elements that a check valve should never be necessary. I 100% agree with Chipmunk. You can always figure out a way for a system to not siphon too much and overflow the sump. Check valves are a completely unnecessary complication that will fail at some point. I would never use them. Hotly debated topic, but I think you will find a much higher percentage of people are against them than those that are for them.
 
I must respectfully disagree with the OP. Check valves should never be used. Design your system so that your sump can handle the water coming back into it when the pumps are turned off. As mentioned above, check valves are just delaying the inevitable flood. Don't use them!
 
check valves will fail even if you have the ones that can be cleaned and maintain them well. design the sump to handle the back flow.
 
How would one handle a situation with pump hanging on back of aquarium that runs an air stone when the power fails. This is the situation I had that caused the water to back up the tubing and short out the pump causing the pump to melt and starting a small fire? Need some advice on how to avoid this happening again. Of course it happened at 1:00 A.M.
 
Simple, air pump higher than the water line. Air pump on GFCI.
 
Simple, air pump higher than the water line. Air pump on GFCI.

GFCI is often not well fitted to protecting against fire. It's main defense is against electrocution.



Time for a regularly scheduled electrical safety PSA...

copy/paste:


When dealing with equipment electrical safety should be thought of. When dealing with heaters this is multiplied as they are like shoving a toaster into your water with a thin protective layer over it that can be compromised.

My standard copy paste for electrical safety concerns and recommendation for a CAFCI and GFCI circuits.

On CAFCI, GFCI, and Surge Protection to protect your house, yourself, and your equipment.

I like redundancy and as much protection against equipment failures as possible. Things like Heaters and power strips in our hobby have created more havoc then necessary with the occasional fun dip of lights into the tank...


I would also suggest a CAFCI along with GFCI

CAFCI will help protect your house from fire
GFCI will help protect you from electrocution

00decdb99afb5c82c4057529171e2b6e.jpg


681a4d90b06f2d1ef97c14e6e5c6a23d.jpg



And a good surge protector will help protect your equipment.

Individual one shown above. Tripplite makes some good ones. Be warned some newer surge protection devices will stop power from flowing all together once it can no longer provide surge protection. This is actually a good thing IMO for many things like computers/tv/etc but NOT a good thing, again IMO, for many other things like refrigerators, freezers, our aquariums, etc. Some will make an audible alarm when exhausted which is nice too.

Plus a whole home. None last forever and will need replaced eventually based on how many surges and intensity of surges they've been hit by. Surges can come from outside your home, not just lightening strikes, and from inside the home.

Eaton Ultra and SquareD hepd80 are a couple good whole home surge protectors.
bf6fbd03b4b04f1ed0673892ebef727a.jpg



Plus having more then one circuit with life support spread across them. I have two additional circuits then what's pictured above to my main tank on the first floor with GFCI at the receptacles so its easier to reset them if tripped. Then the two shown in the picture above go to my basement sump with the GFCI at the breaker. Along with being a CAFCI. There are also AFCI breakers but don't protect against as many arc faults as a CAFCI.

And don't get confused by combination AFCI (CAFCI). That doesn't mean it combines GFCI with it. The packaging has to specify GFCI as well to support both CAFCI and GFCI. Sometimes called dual.


bd9ca223039632f97a210b17a4d007cc.jpg


Here's some visuals
af1e646bbcd39537132518af8119a231.jpg


89fcf62bdae99cee50bc1b93a4dc549f.jpg


And CAFCI protects against both of these where AFCI only parallel
537ac3cec3c96f97aa2b3b6a4ef6abeb.jpg


In the US the NEC will typically require a class A GFCI protection in places like a bathroom (fishtank) which trips at 6mA. Some places like commercial applications can use class C, D, or E that trip at 20mA.

http://m.csemag.com/index.php?id=9575&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=102229&cHash=89c8746cdc4a7fd8a3cb93f1d51ba57a



So, to sum it up
I highly recommend at minimum two ways to control and more importantly stop the heater from running.
I highly recommend at least two heaters which means double the ways to control the heaters.
I highly recommend each heater on a completely separate electrical circuit
I highly recommend each circuit to be both CAFCI and GFCI and the use of a good surge protector
I recommend each circuit to be dedicated to the tank.



One other thing I'd like to add to the discussion of safety with electricity and having had heaters cause fires or lots of smoke before

I have smoke/fire detectors in every room but also extra ones where there's lots of equipment like my workbench area, above my electric panel annd especially under the tank stand and sump room.

Under tank stand
30687ef32fc6ab4d661cc55ae69159f9.jpg


Above where all my equipment is plugged into and there's another above the sump where the equipment is at.
498ab7b20fcc2f246fd38bab4c41cd79.jpg


Paranoid? Maybe. Quick easy safety features? Yep.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aqu...x0PLSAhWI8YMKHWi-AQMQ_AUICSgD&biw=360&bih=560
 
and I agree with 0 check valves ever. Design and implement in a way to never need one. IF you are depending on a peristaltic pump to stop a siphon then I hope it has at least 3 rollers and they are set properly. I've seen 2 roller peristaltic pumps develop or have a slow siphon. I've seen any peristaltic pumps not set right (i.e. tubing not in the right track or pinched etc) allow a siphon.
 
How would one handle a situation with pump hanging on back of aquarium that runs an air stone when the power fails. This is the situation I had that caused the water to back up the tubing and short out the pump causing the pump to melt and starting a small fire? Need some advice on how to avoid this happening again. Of course it happened at 1:00 A.M.

Simple, don't use an air stone. They aren't necessary on a saltwater tank that has some surface agitation and in tank circulation. Plus not having to deal with salt creep.

I assume this is the thread you thought wasn't posted? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beware-penn-plax-silent-air-b11.318750/ It just dropped off the 1st page, not because of the product name but because it didn't get much response. Probably because air stone aren't used much.
 

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