In a slump with keeping fish.. bad luck? or me?

RussK · Jul 1, 2017

Hello,

I apologize for the long post, I just figure the background info is useful.

I have a 55 gallon FOWLR. I first got in to the hobby in 2013. Over the years I kept a variety of fish without issue. I once had an outbreak of ich, but was able to cure them without any loss. I even had to move my tank 1.5 hours away, and was able to get everything set back up without loss. Being able to keep the fish for a few years, even in those circumstances, I was feeling pretty confident.

Early this year I had to move quite far, and so I gave my fish away to the LFS. I was not going to be able to keep them for this move.

In my new state, I started the tank back up in March. I have had a Vivid Fancy Clown and a Banggai Cardinal since April.

In the middle of May, I bought a Coral Beauty. I did a drip acclimate, and introduced it to the tank. Two days later it developed a serious case of ich and did not make it. The ich did not spread to the other inhabitants. I've since bought a 20 gallon hospital/QT tank.

In late May I bought a Yellow Tang (a species that I've had for years previously). I had it in QT for 2 weeks, and it never showed any signs of illness. I moved it to the DT in the beginning of June, and it seemed to be doing quite well. However, it just died a few days ago. I'm not sure what happened. It seemed perfectly fine in the morning, but when I came home the Chocolate Chip Seastar was eating it. I seriously doubt the Seastar is what killed it.

Also, just a few days ago (before the Tang died), I bought a Flame Angel and had it in the QT. It was doing fine and eating well for the first 4 days. However, today I found it laying on the bottom of the tank. It was still breathing, but not moving. About 40 minutes after I found it like this, it had a seizure and died.

The parameters have always been good. 0.0 Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate; 8.2 pH. I keep the salinity at 1.023. I have a protein skimmer, bio-filter, and UV light on the DT - same set-up I've had for years. In the QT I dose with SeaChem Stability, and SeaChem ParaGuard. It has an air pump and a HOB filter.

After losing three in a row, I'm really starting to doubt myself. I don't want to buy more fish, because I feel like I won't be able to keep them healthy. On the other hand, I really enjoy the hobby and don't want to give up. Is it possible that I've just been unlucky with the last three fish? Or is it more likely that I was just really lucky my first three years? Is there anything that I am doing wrong?

Mr. Bill · Jul 1, 2017

Did you buy those three fish from the same LFS? Here in my area, fish from one particular LFS had a high mortality rate regardless how healthy they seemed at first. Oddly enough, he only sold wild-caught fish and had a 50% off sale the same day his shipments came in. Most LFSes buy from one main supplier. If that supplier is buying fish cheaper from collectors who use questionable practices or they're not taking adequate care themselves, you'll have this type situation. Thankfully that store went out of business after just a couple of years. While fish can die for no obvious reason, it's rare if they're collected and handled properly.

RussK · Jul 1, 2017

So far I've bought most of the fish from one LFS. The Yellow Tang was actually from a different LFS. I'm considering trying to buy online to see if I have any better luck.
The flame angel was on sale, and they had a bunch of them in when I went in. Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised if they bought it from a cheap supplier.

Mr. Bill · Jul 1, 2017

Personally, I've been buying all my livestock from http://www.liveaquaria.com/ for the past 7 years and have had no issues yet.

4FordFamily · Jul 1, 2017

Sounds like possible velvet to me... :/

ebushrow · Jul 1, 2017

That really stinks! However, you need to follow the qt'ing process properly....if you add a fish to the qt, you need to start the 6-8 week process over again....read the stickies in the fish disease forums for the best methods. Your qt setup seems fine, but you need to prophylacticly deal with some fish differently than others, starting with freshwater dips for all fish except wrasses....this will remove flukes which exacerbates and disease. Seeing that you have ich in your DT, you should go fallow for 80 days and kick it while the fish population is low in the tank first. Treat your current fish with copper or cp....then after the 80 days add the 3 back to the DT and sterilize your qt setup and then start to qt a new fish or 2....too much to really put in the post, but the stickies explain it all....atleast most of it. Hope this helps

RussK · Jul 1, 2017

I did start my QT with water from the DT on both occasions (I didn't know you could QT with all new water). So it's possible if my DT is contaminated, I just brought the disease over. After reading about velvet, I don't think it was ich that killed the Coral Beauty in the DT. It was avoiding the light, and when I first saw the dots, it was only a few hours before it was completely covered.

Currently the Vivid Fancy Clown and Banggai Cardinal are the only fish in the DT. They were the first fish added, and have always been symptom free. Other than that, there are a couple of small peppermint shrimp, a cleaner shrimp, snails, and a chocolate chip sea star. I haven't seen the dots on any of the other fish.

With the Clown and Cardinal being symptom free, is it still recommended to go fallow? Or will I be okay to just not add anything new for the 80 days? I guess a better question is would there be any harm in pulling them to QT if there's a chance they don't actually need it?

If I do go fallow, do I need to take any of those inverts out? Or just the two fish?

Thank you so much for the insight.

Fishfinder · Jul 1, 2017

Just take the 2 fish to QT. You can leave the inverts. But ALL fish must come out. QT them and treat them with copper or CP. that will make them velvet free

ebushrow · Jul 2, 2017

RussK said:
I did start my QT with water from the DT on both occasions (I didn't know you could QT with all new water). So it's possible if my DT is contaminated, I just brought the disease over. After reading about velvet, I don't think it was ich that killed the Coral Beauty in the DT. It was avoiding the light, and when I first saw the dots, it was only a few hours before it was completely covered.

Currently the Vivid Fancy Clown and Banggai Cardinal are the only fish in the DT. They were the first fish added, and have always been symptom free. Other than that, there are a couple of small peppermint shrimp, a cleaner shrimp, snails, and a chocolate chip sea star. I haven't seen the dots on any of the other fish.

With the Clown and Cardinal being symptom free, is it still recommended to go fallow? Or will I be okay to just not add anything new for the 80 days? I guess a better question is would there be any harm in pulling them to QT if there's a chance they don't actually need it?

If I do go fallow, do I need to take any of those inverts out? Or just the two fish?

Thank you so much for the insight.

Yes, as said above, since the yellow tang died mysteriously you want to ensure your DT is disease free. The inverts can stay, but no host fish for any diseases to continue their life cycles...I know this part stinks almost as much as the fish deaths, but this will ensure your display starts out disease free again and you can then control your fish going in disease free as well. Don't forget to prophylacticly treat your clowns and cardinal while in qt. I would suggest using cp over copper as it seems easier on the fish.

drawman · Jul 2, 2017

I agree with @4FordFamily and @ebushrow completely sounds a lot like Velvet. Unfortunately, the only quarantine you can trust is your own. Velvet is so rampant these days no retailer will keep you safe

.

NEVER use water from your display for the QT. In fact don't even use the same tools, wet hands, etc. any single drop of water could contaminate.

RussK · Jul 2, 2017

Thank you all for your responses. I feel a lot better knowing now, (still sucks being responsible for those deaths) but it's starting to make a lot more sense and I feel like I'll have a better handle on it moving forward.

Looks like I've got some work to do. Time to get busy. Thanks again!

drawman · Jul 2, 2017

RussK said:
Thank you all for your responses. I feel a lot better knowing now, (still sucks being responsible for those deaths) but it's starting to make a lot more sense and I feel like I'll have a better handle on it moving forward.

Looks like I've got some work to do. Time to get busy. Thanks again!

There are a ton of wonderful stickies in the fish disease forum that can give you a very quick and productive crash course with treatment. I would let your tank go fallow to rid it of all parasites. FW dips, followed by 90 min acriflavine baths, followed by 30 days in coppersafe would be an effective tx protocol. Then you could observe and hit with prazipro to cover all of your bases. The more questions you ask the better! Good luck!