Increase pH without skimmer. How?
- Thread starter KonradTO
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ss30
Active Member
I wouldn't put the Air pump in a sealed box it would be better to pump the air through a container with the soda lime in then to the tank.
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
LOL. I did so many things in 2 months that now I cannot tell what would be the cause of problems if they arose.
As I said I am battling with dinos now, which it does not give me much room for stability. They already killed my feather duster and I had a YWG dying for no apparent reason. My CUC is very slow because they don't feed on the algae covered with dinos, so I need to try everything possible to stop them in less than 1-2 months. One of the remaining things I did not do is increasing pH, so I might try the CO2 scrubber thing once I have a way to measure pH. I will raise nutrients too and once dino is gone I can keep everything without putting my hands in the tank for a couple of months and see.
ReefLife_Guy
Active Member
Yes, definitely agree with this. The key is making sure you buy an air pump that is strong enough to push the air through. I bought an eheim that made bubble like crazy but there is no way it could do the same after being plumbed to a CO2 canister. I will go ahead and write up my build now and I'll make sure to tag you. I will say it has also brought my pH fluctuation to a much tighter range, before I was having pH go up and down by like 0.2 and now I'm at 0.1 from lights on to lights off. My airpump also has an adjustable flow rate so I'm working with it now to figure out the least amount of flow for the most amount of pH increase and stability.
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
I was thinking about the box thing because I could use the air from outside as well during summer and use soda lime in winter when I cannot keep the windows open. But I think there is another alternative though. I recently purchased a small biofilter for my 5g pico which has the possibility to function as a venturi, drawing air for bubblescrubbing. it was cheap (15€) so I might experiment with that.
BanjoBandito
Valuable Member
Lots of good advice here. Stop trying to make "minor adjustments" for "minor swings".....a tank will kinda settle in to where it's going to be. The ATO can be tough, I generally hate all of them but they are a necessary evil in most systems. Aim for ALK between 7-9 then try and hold it, try and not overfeed and keep algae down. Good husbandry and practical steps will go a long way. Don't get too hung up on PH until you get the rest in line. Try some "easy" corals like zoas (certain ones), war coral, toadstools, etc. It takes time for frags to "take off". Be patient. Hold the line. Good luck! We have lots of smart people on here that can help. And remember, you are going to get LOTS of advice, so don't try everything all at once, do your research and do things you are comfortable with.
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
After the last time I wrote on this thread I did the following:
- Increase flow (added another jebao slw10)
-Add an airstone at the exit of the overflow. I use a plastic container to make it foam (bubbles+flow).
-The air for the airstone comes from an airpump placed OUTSIDE.
-Got a ph probe for my Robotank (calibrated and such)
-Left windows slightly open for 2 weeks (every single day/night)
My pH probe after 2 point calibration gives same results as the one in the lab. PH is still bouncing between 7.8 and 8 along the day/night cycle.
www.hamzasreef.com
shouldn't my pH be around 8.2?
(kH 7.2, 200m altitude, 25 celsius)
My interpretation is that there is not enough gas exchange in my tank, despite the wavemakers and the airstone. I am slowly increasing Alk over the next 2 weeks, I should earn somewhere around +0.1 pH
- Increase flow (added another jebao slw10)
-Add an airstone at the exit of the overflow. I use a plastic container to make it foam (bubbles+flow).
-The air for the airstone comes from an airpump placed OUTSIDE.
-Got a ph probe for my Robotank (calibrated and such)
-Left windows slightly open for 2 weeks (every single day/night)
My pH probe after 2 point calibration gives same results as the one in the lab. PH is still bouncing between 7.8 and 8 along the day/night cycle.
Equilibrium pH Calculator
Aquarium calculator; Estimate the equilibrium pH of your aquarium assuming it is thoroughly aerated.
www.hamzasreef.com
shouldn't my pH be around 8.2?
(kH 7.2, 200m altitude, 25 celsius)
My interpretation is that there is not enough gas exchange in my tank, despite the wavemakers and the airstone. I am slowly increasing Alk over the next 2 weeks, I should earn somewhere around +0.1 pH
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
I literally left 2 windows open in every room for the past 2 weeks so I highly doubt the problem is indoor co2 in summer. It might be a problem in winter but I am planning to use a co2 scrubber by then
Wasabiroot
Valonia Slayer
Kalk or refugium would be my vote. They both come with added maintenance, but I think the pros outweigh the cons. Run refugium on opposite light cycle as display - photosynthesis will consume co2 during night and help even pH curve
gbru316
Well-Known Member
This is your problem. Right here. You're gauging perfection based off of data. Which is perfectly fine, for many things. Trust me, I get it. I'm an engineer. It's my go-to method as well.
For a reef tank, though, it's not acceptable. Perfection should be based upon observation of your livestock. Once you deviate from that and start relying on numbers, you can quickly run into trouble. I spent years chasing numbers. And never once achieved the success that I wanted.
Get your numbers in an acceptable window (and pH of 7.8 is perfectly acceptable) and keep them there. Don't make changes for weeks/months. Just focus on keeping them within the window. After some time, take a look. A really good look. Is your coral pale? Are polyps extended? Are zoa's spreading? Is there too much algae? Use these markers as forcing functions to make change. Not any number from a test kit. After all, some tanks have minimal algae with 0.1 ppm phosphate and 25 ppm nitrate. Others have it clogging up every intake in the tank with the same numbers. There are just too many variables and unknowns.
I'm currently on my 4th tank over 20 years, I've stopped chasing numbers. And only being a few months old, I've already had far more success than ever.
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HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
If you had a meter you would understand how little opening windows does, and for how long. The meter also shows you the trends and more importantly the peaks because that is where the real CO2 enters your system. CO2 is quick to uptake and slow to exit. That is why it is important to have a constant low number. What you are doing is analagous to dosing for calcium without ever testing it. While this may seem to work, in the long run you will not have the information that you need to properly evaluate and work with the levels that you are adding to your tank.
As to CO2 scrubbers, if you are battling a 2800ppm (or even down to the 1500ppm range) ambient CO2 level you are very unlikely to get anywhere with a scrubber. It is simply a mountain that the scrubber can not overcome.
My thought is that meters are cheap and they give a ton of information on the incredibly poorly understood role of CO2 in gas exchange that takes place in our aquariums.
As with all things it is your tank.
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
No I totally get that. I know that changing conditions makes a cascade of events that prevent the tank from stabilizing, BUT:
-Stuff like duncans and zoas are not growing at all, they were supposed to be fast growers but in my case I rather see them shrinking if that is possible.
-Dinos. I am trying literally every possible bit against Amphidinium: higher temp, no water changes, dosing silicate etc.
I read that increasing pH helps (other than making corals grow faster) so I wanted to try the combination of higher pH and the mentioned above.
- finally its a bug in my mind. From the common knowledge I should have higher pH with my params. I want to find out what is the reason behind this, lets call it curiosity.
In general I have not been doing significant changes that could destabilize the tank (in the past weeks). Adding flow I think can only make things better, same for increased gas exchange. Lights, Alk, Ca etc are there where they should be and I am not changing much those.
The only one that is fluctuating a bit is nitrate, I struggle to keep it at 10 if I don't regularly dose, and I am not sure how much I can feed before making things worse with dinos.
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KonradTO
Valuable Member
I get it. But when I open there is a lot of air "current" (I have windows on 3 sides of the house) so there is constant exchange.If you had a meter you would understand how little opening windows does, and for how long. The meter also shows you the trends and more importantly the peaks because that is where the real CO2 enters your system. CO2 is quick to uptake and slow to exit. That is why it is important to have a constant low number. What you are doing is analagous to dosing for calcium without ever testing it. While this may seem to work, in the long run you will not have the information that you need to properly evaluate and work with the levels that you are adding to your tank.
As to CO2 scrubbers, if you are battling a 2800ppm (or even down to the 1500ppm range) ambient CO2 level you are very unlikely to get anywhere with a scrubber. It is simply a mountain that the scrubber can not overcome.
My thought is that meters are cheap and they give a ton of information on the incredibly poorly understood role of CO2 in gas exchange that takes place in our aquariums.
As with all things it is your tank.
Despite this it would be interesting to monitor CO2 levels, especially in winter. I was looking for a CO2 meter some time ago but I could not find any reliable sensor, do you know any?
ZombieEngineer
Valuable Member
Gotta add a lot more than you think with the silicates. You need to maintain above 3ppm to trigger a diatom bloom that would starve them out.
gbru316
Well-Known Member
1. Increasing pH will only increase calcification rate of stony corals. It will have little-to-no impact on polyps or softies.
2. Depending on your ambient environment, increasing gas exchange might hurt your pH from increased CO2 absorption. It's quick to drop, slow to rise -- and I've seen that play out repeatedly because I monitor pH via Apex (and run a co2 scrubber on my skimmer).
3. Zoa's dont grow much at all in my tank, either. In fact, they usually wither away. Paly's seem to do fine though. SPS is doing great. Mixed tanks are significantly harder than type tanks.
4. What's your phosphate at?
HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
This is the one that I use:
CO2 Carbon Dioxide Monitor Temperature Humidity Air Quality Detector Q5F0 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CO2 Carbon Dioxide Monitor Temperature Humidity Air Quality Detector Q5F0 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
They all use the same system for measuring the CO2 ... there is about a 5% inaccuracy built into this type of sensor. There are also others that are cheaper. My understanding when I was researching was you were paying for build quality.
My thought is that in the land of the blind the man with one eye is king. Just knowing what you are up against is everything.
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gbru316
Well-Known Member
This is the one that I use:
CO2 Carbon Dioxide Monitor Temperature Humidity Air Quality Detector Q5F0 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CO2 Carbon Dioxide Monitor Temperature Humidity Air Quality Detector Q5F0 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!www.ebay.com
They all use the same system for measuring the CO2 ... there is about a 5% inaccuracy built into this type of sensor. There are also others that are cheaper. My understanding when I was researching was you were paying for build quality.
My thought is that in the land of the blind the man with one eye is king. Just knowing what you are up against is everything.
Thanks, now I'm down a rabbit hole of how to monitor CO2 with an Apex. Most cost-effective solution would be an NDIR sensor from Adafruit with a D-A converter to convert the data to analog 0-5V, which can then be set up as a "probe" in the Apex. Would cost about the same as the meter type you linked, but with the bonus of Apex integration and ability to overlay Co2 data with tank pH data (or any other Apex data).
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