Innovative Marine 50 Gallon EXT Lagoon

[TheWB]

LOL. The great thing about all for reef and kalk is that they are ionically balanced on their own, or so i understand that. So not really like 2 part solutions. The reef plus and chaeto are just trace elements, so as long as not dosed in mass, i don't think they'll screw anything up. My thought is the occasional ICP test will confirm that. On the 200 gallon, i might get monthly ICP once up, unless it becomes uninteresting as to results or a waste of money.

The rainbow is VERY nice looking anemone. It is definitely on my list, just went with sunburst for the 50 gallon. It was $300, which isn't--i hate to say this now but it's the reality for high end corals now--crazy expensive...

You’re right, $300 isn’t outrageous and it’s all relative anyway. I’m always scared I’m going to kill anything expensive so the most $$ I’ve ever spent on livestock is a tie between the Rainbow Bubble Tip and my Tomini Tang which were both $69.99. I’ll drop money when I need to, just ordered two Nero 3’s today, but so far I have resisted the urge to drop $1000 at Battlecorals. The anxiety would be too much.

I was all excited for the results of my ICP test but it was kinda anticlimactic. I was hoping for some insight into why I hadn’t had much LPS growth other than euphillia but my parameters were all pretty good. No obvious problems, just a couple of tweaks. That’s good, but not so exciting. If your first one comes back good then I’d probably go quarterly instead of monthly as long as nothing looks off.

 

[jhuntstl]

Lol

I keep the additions 50% kalk (slurry (two tablespoons per two litres) , not saturated kalk) and 50% all for reef. I test Alk twice a day on a kh director. Magnesium and CA are never low when i do test them, which is maybe a once a month or two. ICP every three months about. The all for reef contain magnesium and other trace elements.

I use the DIY all for reef recipe from BRS instead of the liquid, in case i need to adjust magnesium or trace elements up or down.

My AFR + kalk google queries were surprisingly unsuccessful, so pardon my excitement about finding your post.

I've been pretty steady 8 to 8.3 using a CO2 scrubber. With the addition of kalk, I've most recently logged a low of 8.17 to a high of 8.43. I'm using 2tpsn in 5 gallons of top off water. Don't think I'd jump right into the kalk stirrer, but I'll probably grab another kamoer doser.

I already stocked up on the regular AFR powder. I can see the advantages of the DIY. Sounds like you got your setup dialed in. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

My AFR + kalk google queries were surprisingly unsuccessful, so pardon my excitement about finding your post.

I've been pretty steady 8 to 8.3 using a CO2 scrubber. With the addition of kalk, I've most recently logged a low of 8.17 to a high of 8.43. I'm using 2tpsn in 5 gallons of top off water. Don't think I'd jump right into the kalk stirrer, but I'll probably grab another kamoer doser.

I already stocked up on the regular AFR powder. I can see the advantages of the DIY. Sounds like you got your setup dialed in. Thanks for explaining.

I appreciate the questions as it makes me think about this approach, which u said isn't really commonly posted.

Thinking about it for you, i would dose with a dedicated doser the kalk saturation (which is fine) instead of in an ato. The extra doser is a good idea i think there.

You could use, i think, the kalk and all for reef in any percentage. Just depends on your trace, mag, and calcium demand.

Kalk wont boost those like all for reef. More trace, mag, calcium demand may require more all for reef than kalk.

Kalk also isnt very good at raising alk compared to all for reef. But its way better at raising ph.

With a light demand kalk is cheaper and probably all u need. You could keep using kalk and just add trace from tropic marin if needed.

For my demand, 50% of each works for my tank right now. I like that all for reef can reduce kalk additions and supply trace, mag, trace. I like that kalk boosts ph.

The down side to kalk is calcium scale on pumps and everything so i didn't go 100% with it.

I like the combo so much i am not planning on any calcium reactor for a 200 gallon that will have a ton of acro. Instead i bought a mrc kalk stirrer, biggest one they had, for kalk slurry. Ill dose all for reef too.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

So my hanna phosphate ULR checker reads 0.34 ppm. But an older hanna phosphate reader checker reads 0.13ppm.

I think there is an issue with the ULR or its reagent... ive never had a reading that high before.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Meanwhile, notice this single polyp purchased a month ago or so is going gang buster:

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

You’re right, $300 isn’t outrageous and it’s all relative anyway. I’m always scared I’m going to kill anything expensive so the most $$ I’ve ever spent on livestock is a tie between the Rainbow Bubble Tip and my Tomini Tang which were both $69.99. I’ll drop money when I need to, just ordered two Nero 3’s today, but so far I have resisted the urge to drop $1000 at Battlecorals. The anxiety would be too much.

I was all excited for the results of my ICP test but it was kinda anticlimactic. I was hoping for some insight into why I hadn’t had much LPS growth other than euphillia but my parameters were all pretty good. No obvious problems, just a couple of tweaks. That’s good, but not so exciting. If your first one comes back good then I’d probably go quarterly instead of monthly as long as nothing looks off.

Get some sps like green stags, oregon blue tort, birds nest varieties, superman digitata, and let those grow bigger... they're cheaper and look just a cool IMO as more expensive trends... then when they go gangbuster you won't have anxiety over $$$ corals as much???

 

[TheWB]

Get some sps like green stags, oregon blue tort, birds nest varieties, superman digitata, and let those grow bigger... they're cheaper and look just a cool IMO as more expensive trends... then when they go gangbuster you won't have anxiety over $$$ corals as much???

I think that’s going to be the plan eventually. I’m going to need to do some re-scaping first. Definitely not looking to re-invent the wheel. I like the idea of growing out 3 or 4 colorful, but not high end pieces into larger colonies up top with multiple varieties of zoas, gonis, frogspawn and torches filling out the bottom levels and providing some movement. I thought I had a plan for the scape when I built it but after a couple of years I’m realizing that beyond Zoas I didn’t have a good idea of what I really wanted to do.

 

[jhuntstl]

I appreciate the questions as it makes me think about this approach, which u said isn't really commonly posted.

Thinking about it for you, i would dose with a dedicated doser the kalk saturation (which is fine) instead of in an ato. The extra doser is a good idea i think there.

You could use, i think, the kalk and all for reef in any percentage. Just depends on your trace, mag, and calcium demand.

Kalk wont boost those like all for reef. More trace, mag, calcium demand may require more all for reef than kalk.

Kalk also isnt very good at raising alk compared to all for reef. But its way better at raising ph.

With a light demand kalk is cheaper and probably all u need. You could keep using kalk and just add trace from tropic marin if needed.

For my demand, 50% of each works for my tank right now. I like that all for reef can reduce kalk additions and supply trace, mag, trace. I like that kalk boosts ph.

The down side to kalk is calcium scale on pumps and everything so i didn't go 100% with it.

I like the combo so much i am not planning on any calcium reactor for a 200 gallon that will have a ton of acro. Instead i bought a mrc kalk stirrer, biggest one they had, for kalk slurry. Ill dose all for reef too.

AFR has been rock solid for me. I started dosing at 2ml and six months later I'm up to 15ml in about 24g total volume. I only test ca and mag once a month. They've always been fine. I've yet to send out an ICP. I'd consider doing that maybe once or twice a year. I assume my traces are mostly in line. I do weekly 20% WCs with TM Pro.

The addition of kalk at low saturation levels in the ATO has been surprisingly stable, despite relying on evaporation as my delivery method. I did reduce AFR to compensate. A dedicated dosing pump is obviously the long term solution, though.

I like the idea of dosing minimal kalk to boost pH, while letting AFR do the brunt of the work. The chemistry of all this is where I get confused. I like to think it's as simple as X amount of kalk per hour results in a constant pH increase per hour at X water volume. Consumption is where I really start to get lost. As alk consumption increases, if I reacted only with increasing AFR, but left my kalk doser at a constant, would I see a drop in pH?

Sorry, but now I feel like I should be the chemistry forum and not your build thread haha. I appreciate your responses.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

like the idea of dosing minimal kalk to boost pH, while letting AFR do the brunt of the work. The chemistry of all this is where I get confused. I like to think it's as simple as X amount of kalk per hour results in a constant pH increase per hour at X water volume. Consumption is where I really start to get lost. As alk consumption increases, if I reacted only with increasing AFR, but left my kalk doser at a constant, would I see a drop in pH?

I am definitely not a chemist. I trust my eyes and inspection of corals above all else. I check parameters and try to keep my tank around something that most do not think is odd.

With a GHL set up, my PH and ALK are constantly monitored, so it's easy for me to tweak the kalk and all for reef ratio. I started with 50/50 because i have some demand and that seemed like a good starting point. I was lucky and it was. If i wanted higher pH i would add more kalk and lessen all for reef additions. The lessening of all for reef may lower trace and magnesium though.

If magnesium is low, my montepora's will show it, if alkalinity is off, my xenia will tell me. Various acros will also retract polyps is something is off as well.

I think you are on the right track with what you are saying. I think for low demand tanks that having more kalk and less all for reef makes the most financial sense, as things grow and demand trace and more alk, increase all for additions compared to kalk additions, perhaps.

Really, because kalk and all for reef are ionically balanced (as i have read and been told)--you can dose the two interchangeably. What percentage of what each dosed may impact PH and trace and alk more or less. So just test those things as you play with. For the last couple months or so, 50% all for reef and 50% kalk (Slurry) has done me well, all paraments, ph, alk, mag, calcium, trace are in line. I think i dose about 25 ml of each everyday and it is slowly increases. When alk drops to 8.5, increase the dosage of each equally until i hit 9.0 to 9.5 dkh for steady. Then i wait for it to drop to 8.5 again before increasing the dose again. I'll watch mag and calicium and trace to see if more trace or mag or calicium need to be added. With the DIY recipe, i have the option of just changing the all for reef formula, but have not yet.


My biggest issue is just my GHL---it is so terrible, slow, and inconsistent at connecting it drives absolutely nutz. I would not not recommend a GHL, but i did it over again--i would give the hydros a hard look. Neptune--i am done with and can't stand the company's marketing and proprietary direction.

 

[jhuntstl]

I am definitely not a chemist. I trust my eyes and inspection of corals above all else. I check parameters and try to keep my tank around something that most do not think is odd.

With a GHL set up, my PH and ALK are constantly monitored, so it's easy for me to tweak the kalk and all for reef ratio. I started with 50/50 because i have some demand and that seemed like a good starting point. I was lucky and it was. If i wanted higher pH i would add more kalk and lessen all for reef additions. The lessening of all for reef may lower trace and magnesium though.

If magnesium is low, my montepora's will show it, if alkalinity is off, my xenia will tell me. Various acros will also retract polyps is something is off as well.

I think you are on the right track with what you are saying. I think for low demand tanks that having more kalk and less all for reef makes the most financial sense, as things grow and demand trace and more alk, increase all for additions compared to kalk additions, perhaps.

Really, because kalk and all for reef are ionically balanced (as i have read and been told)--you can dose the two interchangeably. What percentage of what each dosed may impact PH and trace and alk more or less. So just test those things as you play with. For the last couple months or so, 50% all for reef and 50% kalk (Slurry) has done me well, all paraments, ph, alk, mag, calcium, trace are in line. I think i dose about 25 ml of each everyday and it is slowly increases. When alk drops to 8.5, increase the dosage of each equally until i hit 9.0 to 9.5 dkh for steady. Then i wait for it to drop to 8.5 again before increasing the dose again. I'll watch mag and calicium and trace to see if more trace or mag or calicium need to be added. With the DIY recipe, i have the option of just changing the all for reef formula, but have not yet.


My biggest issue is just my GHL---it is so terrible, slow, and inconsistent at connecting it drives absolutely nutz. I would not not recommend a GHL, but i did it over again--i would give the hydros a hard look. Neptune--i am done with and can't stand the company's marketing and proprietary direction.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

I recently picked up a Hydros X3, so I do have pH monitoring. I don't think I would have touched kalk without it. I'll test alk as often as I feel it's necessary. Since testing in the ATO it's been 1-2 times a day.

The AFR powder at this point is a bargain imo. I'd rather dose heavier AFR and exclusively use kalk to maintain pH. I'm sure the cost difference is significant. At such low volumes, and even if it were higher volume/$$$, I'm just more comfortable with AFR. But I guess my ph goals would then ultimately determine my kalk to afr ratio.

I likely will modify my mag and ca testing routine until I'm comfortable with the combo. First step is gonna be getting another doser though. And tell me what's the monti sign for low mag?

That sucks about GHL. I had always heard good things. As mentioned I just got into Hydros. I'm happy so far, but have barely broken the surface. I feel optimistic about their plans moving forward.

I'm very aware of your thoughts on Neptune, hahah. I've never owned any Neptune products. After seeing the SKY breakdown and various other complaints about cheap internals in their product lineup, I decided to stay away. I picked up a CoralCare during the BRS clearance. If I dropped this Gen2 on a SKY it would probably be similar to Volvo Semi going head on with a Geo Metro. Basically I feel like I bought a truly well built, high quality fixture. Something that could actually last a decade or more while still maintaining a respectable LED intensity.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

If I dropped this Gen2 on a SKY it would probably be similar to Volvo Semi going head on with a Geo Metro.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

The AFR powder at this point is a bargain imo.

For sure. I have some too. And will use it up.

I likely will modify my mag and ca testing routine until I'm comfortable with the combo. First step is gonna be getting another doser though. And tell me what's the monti sign for low mag?

Mag and calcium should not need to be tested at all really until you have high demand for ALK. I test them every so often because i can, not because i really need to... My tank does not have high demand by a long shot.

Any time a monti fades in color or looks off, it's worth it to test magnesium. I use instant ocean salt and had an issue with a monti when i didn't dose at all because i thought that one coral wouldn't use that much anything... A big monti can suck up some two part and mag though...

That sucks about GHL. I had always heard good things. As mentioned I just got into Hydros. I'm happy so far, but have barely broken the surface. I feel optimistic about their plans moving forward.

they all have issues for sure. I am just gripping about GHL. The connectivity issues is terrible. The manual control of devises is terrible--it times out and is worthless to use--a pump will just go back on at the worst time.... So you have to turn them off in "switch channels" (what a stupid name for a menu item... don't get me started there...). But if you have advanced programming and you shut of a device in "switch channels" becuase the manual on/off is worthless---then you lose all advanced programming settings in "switch channel" and have to remember how to set it up again. which of course would not be a big deal--except for the fact nothing in the advanced programing--from looking at the settings--confirms what you are doing.. You literally have to memorize the programming and re-enter it each time... I am busy guy and when you just want to shut off a chiller for 5 minutes--you end up not doing so because you don't want to screw up the settings.

For example

Ill give any frag you want if you tell me what this programming does just by reading the screen:

WHAT DOES THIS DO??? to figure out--you have to memorize and/or go back into "control" then "sensors" then "temperature" then remember how you set up three "virtual" temperature "probes" just have a chiller shut off if the tank got too hot or too cold...

then in "switch channels" you have have corresponding setting up. AND you LOSE these settings if you shut off the chiller! AND if you do not enter them exactly the same all over again--it wont work:

Not a huge deal--but remembering if it's "inverted" or not and if it's "programable logic" 1, 2 , 3 or 6--is not what is on your mind when your dealing with an emergency or anything with the tank really!

GHL just has zero polish to its software and usability. It's nine menu screens to do any simple task. If all i did all day was program GHL's maybe i wouldn't care.... But i have shi* to do with my day--and just want an aquarium controller that i can look at and confirm what the heck i am doing without pulling Youtube videos and online instructions REPEATEDLY.

At least neptune programming has a solid logic to it.... Learn the language and any code makes sense just by reading it... A heck of a lot better--and i hate Neptune (and its false advertising and overpriced chinese product line).

ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just lazy poor fit and finish and half-butt software: If you check your graphs for ALK or ph--theres no number on the X or Y axis, so tell me what these number readings are with just a glance??? IMPOSSIBLE:

Talk about garbage for thousands of dollars....

Dont get me wrong, after days of set up, the hardware works and hopefully lasts, but i literally have a doctorate and STRUGGLE with its quirky, non-intuitive, anything but simple i interface and setup.

I'm very aware of your thoughts on Neptune, hahah. I've never owned any Neptune products. After seeing the SKY breakdown and various other complaints about cheap internals in their product lineup, I decided to stay away. I picked up a CoralCare during the BRS clearance. If I dropped this Gen2 on a SKY it would probably be similar to Volvo Semi going head on with a Geo Metro. Basically I feel like I bought a truly well built, high quality fixture. Something that could actually last a decade or more while still maintaining a respectable LED intensity.

 

[jhuntstl]

Mag and calcium should not need to be tested at all really until you have high demand for ALK. I test them every so often because i can, not because i really need to... My tank does not have high demand by a long shot.

That is good to know, thanks. I'll stick to once a month since it's routine. What is your definition of high demand? My tank is young and pretty much all sticks. Just about all of them are showing solid growth. I'd imagine I'll fit in that category eventually.

I won't even be attempting your free frag offer hah.

I had always heard GHL had a learning curve, but was fantastic once you got the hang of the interface. Honestly GHL is out of my price range. Like yourself, my time is becoming increasingly limited. I'd be pretty frustrated if I felt like I was wasting it to an aquarium controller. I feel like Hydros is still so young, but with hopefully many improvements to come. It was incredibly easy to setup, but again I've barely broken into it's full potential. The feel of the Hydros unit is pretty dang cheap though. I was surprised. It's all plastic, not much weight to it, and was pretty scuffed from the factory. Out of the box impressions were lackluster, but that was easy to forget after it was mounted and operational. They're clearly trying to make their system more afforable, so I'd imagine this is one way it's achieved.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

What is your definition of high demand?

When a calcium reactor becomes economically viable... lol

I feel like Hydros . . . was incredibly easy to setup

jealous

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Latest crap from GHL

I just hit refill over and over and nothing happens......... log out log in... ditto, same crap.

 

[TheWB]

Latest crap from GHL

I just hit refill over and over and nothing happens......... log out log in... ditto, same crap.

That’s got to be incredibly frustrating, sorry you’re having to deal with it. I have an Apex, which I know you are not a fan, that does what I need it to do, which is not much. The programming aspect of the Profilux is what made it a non starter for me and your experience pretty much backs that up. With their hardware quality if they just came out with a simple user friendly interface they’d dominate the space. I have high hopes for the Hydros system to eventually be that combo of quality and ease of use. Time will tell.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Already running Seachem Reefplus:

And seachem says Reeftrace compliments reefplus, so thinking about running the trace in my available doser:

what i like about the seachem supplements is they have been around for like almost 20 years, no complaints i've read, and they actually list the ingredients and amounts on their website. My thought is when running GFO and a cheaper salt like instant ocean these broad trace elements probably to do more good than harm. Really, i just i hate seeing an empty doser! hahahaha

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Never gets old fish coming front and center for you...

Peoples photos and videos are the best part of this forum!

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Anemone comes tomorrow. Made a magnetic cradle from tonga live rock

Any luck this guy splits in the future for the 200 gallon

 

[TheWB]

Anemone comes tomorrow. Made a magnetic cradle from tonga live rock

Any luck this guy splits in the future for the 200 gallon

That’s really cool. Nice job. Can’t wait to see the new nem.