Insta Cycled or Insta Stocked or something else?

[Borat]

Borat, funniest movie ever made in history people were scream-laughing in the theater, let me ask this:

when the newb adds the extra fish how does that impact the instant cycle? does the ammonia rise and burn the fish?

disclaimer: the question is fully loaded.

Fishless cycle is what I do... Even in Kazakistan we don't let animals swim in urine...

Half a prawn (or quarter if smaller tank) - left to rot will generate the amount of ammonia required to cycle the tank..

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Precisely haha. Yessir let's define cycle and what that means in this thread. There is absoloutely no question on whether or not a mature tank can be transferred to new tank and not miss a beat in processing ammonia and nitrites. So its probably more like cycled system goes in and continues to cycle in new system. Idk haha

For new and insta stocked, I do the below. I am not stocking heavy when I do this, so take that into account.

Setup tank
New water
New rocks
Single head doser
Bottle bac (typically a mix of turbo start and biospria, as it is readily available where I am)
Ammonia alert badge and test kits

I dose the tank every hour with some of the bottled bac and run the lights more white and for 12 hours. Never had a loss, never had ammonia go into a dangerous range or any ill affects to anything. Even when stocked with easier corals. At 1 week, I test the big 3 along with nitrate and PO4. Usually after 1-2 days algae is growing well and the bottle bac stops. At that point, I let the tank run and the algae is plucked if needed. Clean up crew is added and just move on from there like a long cycled tank. My first tank moving from FL back to TN was done this way and if you have ever seen my clowns and tangs, they are healthy and 11-13 years old.

On this, I think the bac helps a ton, but once the algae grows, it is the main consumer of ammonia. My understanidng is that GHA and other macros would prefer ammonia over no3 and po4. I dose pure ammonia to my macro growout and have better growth and color than only dosing no3 and po4 to it.

This may not work for all, as you need to be on top of testing and dosing. It is not a set and forget it by any means, but for the processing of ammonia, it is very near instant. The volume of water plays a big part in this, as does the amount of fish you put in the tank. Throw 20 fish in a 100 gallon and this may not work. Not sure. I have always added my more docile fish first doing this, so they can carve out their niche first.

But again, is this really insta-cycled, as I am adding the needed bacteria to process the ammonia.

 

[design.maddie]

Something else. I shall rephrase it as "Dangerous"

 

[brandon429]

hidden fact about cycles: the test kits we own determine our stance.

we don’t really seek to verify timelines, consistencies among tanks, the actual ability or inability to control bioload we wield a cheap test and remark on what bacteria can do or mainly can’t do.

the gap between what we think is happening in a cycle, or with changes in bioloading vs what’s really happening is a gap .5 miles or ppm wide



for example


in this thread if someone had a mini cycle, they also had Red Sea ammonia or api but not seneye. This link is fascinating on how we collectively assess filters in our setups.

buying impulses for bacteria
cleaning boundaries
ability to make start dates on time, all controlled by the whims of the non digital cycle assessment. How we rate filter performance moves big markets, it affects our reefing boundaries and in the end it also affects animal retention % ability though that doesn’t seem apparent up front.


have we ever seen a post where the aquarist was frozen from action due to concern over mini cycling while all along X took over and wiped out the entire investment? I sure have seen two thousand of those. It’s a costly perception.

 

[LRT]

For new and insta stocked, I do the below. I am not stocking heavy when I do this, so take that into account.

Setup tank
New water
New rocks
Single head doser
Bottle bac (typically a mix of turbo start and biospria, as it is readily available where I am)
Ammonia alert badge and test kits

I dose the tank every hour with some of the bottled bac and run the lights more white and for 12 hours. Never had a loss, never had ammonia go into a dangerous range or any ill affects to anything. Even when stocked with easier corals. At 1 week, I test the big 3 along with nitrate and PO4. Usually after 1-2 days algae is growing well and the bottle bac stops. At that point, I let the tank run and the algae is plucked if needed. Clean up crew is added and just move on from there like a long cycled tank. My first tank moving from FL back to TN was done this way and if you have ever seen my clowns and tangs, they are healthy and 11-13 years old.

On this, I think the bac helps a ton, but once the algae grows, it is the main consumer of ammonia. My understanidng is that GHA and other macros would prefer ammonia over no3 and po4. I dose pure ammonia to my macro growout and have better growth and color than only dosing no3 and po4 to it.

This may not work for all, as you need to be on top of testing and dosing. It is not a set and forget it by any means, but for the processing of ammonia, it is very near instant. The volume of water plays a big part in this, as does the amount of fish you put in the tank. Throw 20 fish in a 100 gallon and this may not work. Not sure. I have always added my more docile fish first doing this, so they can carve out their niche first.

But again, is this really insta-cycled, as I am adding the needed bacteria to process the ammonia.

Ok I see where your at now.
How about transferring a mature tank? Do you still add bottle bac?
I did add bottle bac to tank 2 but experienced wierd ph and cloudy water swings.
I feel like bottle bac is not needed during transfer as long as your not exceeding bioload mature system is already cycling. At least that's what I found. May even do more harm than good.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Ok I see where your at now.
How about transferring a mature tank? Do you still add bottle bac?
I did add bottle bac to tank 2 but experienced wierd ph and cloudy water swings.
I feel like bottle bac is not needed during transfer as long as your not exceeding bioload mature system is already cycling. At least that's what I found. May even do more harm than good.

For transfer (even with new rock), I add nothing. Especially if the same bioload as before. The rock did its job in the old tank, gonna do the same job in the new tank. I do swish the rock around in old tank water to remove some detritus that may be in the pores. but nothing more.

I also continue to dose the same as I was dosing, but test more frequently to make sure consumption does not go up or down. Most times, I have seen alk consumption go up when doing a move. Not sure why, but i usually results in a few more mL a day of alk needing to be dosed. Maybe it is me clearing detritus and stuff and the coralline is growing. Or maybe it is the coralline using more to recover after some air exposure. I have no idea.

I do usually tend to have a slightly lower pH for a few days after a transfer as well and no idea on that either lol.

 

[LRT]

Fishless cycle is what I do... Even in Kazakistan we don't let animals swim in urine...

Half a prawn (or quarter if smaller tank) - left to rot will generate the amount of ammonia required to cycle the tank..

During full mature tank transfer you still do old school half prawn fishless cycle in Kazakistan?

 

[Borat]

During full mature tank transfer you still do old school half prawn fishless cycle in Kazakistan?

No i wouldnt, i was describing InstantNewb cycling..

 

[TriggersAmuck]

Instagratification

 

[cmoore806]

its a transplant

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Thanks to @LRT for the QOTD idea!

Have you ever moved the inhabitants of a reef aquarium to a new tank? Maybe it was a tank upgrade. Maybe you bought someone's entire reef and set it up in your own new tank. Would it need to cycle? Would there be a cycle? What would you even call that? Let's talk about it!

1. What would you call a fully transferred, instantly stocked tank? Insta Cycled or Insta Stocked or something else?

2. Have you ever relocated an existing reef ecosystem to a new tank and how did it go? Did you experience a cycle?

Image via @happyhourhero

I move my 25gal to a 32 gal and I just moved the corals and fish without any cycling. Everything went perfect and the tank is thriving.

 

[RichReef]

I made a transfer 1 time from one tank to another.

We removed 80 percent of the water from the old tank and moved it aside with some help. Put the water back in.

I set up the new tank where the old one was. Filled it with NSW and got the water flowing and system running. Let the new tank run for about 2 weeks. Nothing in the tank at all. It was just a wait and see if something happens period. All looked good.

I then plumbed the new and old together. Started with a slow trickle to full flow over 2 weeks or so. Pods and critters started showing up in the new tank. Then the film algae.

After 2 weeks I separated the plumbing and put a canister filter on the old tank. I used the old tank as a swish tank. I blew off and swished each rock/coral in the old tank then placed the rock/coral in the new. The old tank would get dirty and every so often I would have to wait for the canister filter and filter sock to clear it up before moving on. Had to change socks and clean the canister filter out several times. Bought a steel kitchen strainer and a huge net. Place the sand inside of them and swished the sand too. Placed sand in the new tank.

Added new sand slowly over the next few weeks.

Moved the fish as I could catch them along the way. Just dumped them right in. It was the same water.

It was a flawless transfer. There was no cycle.

Cleaned the old tank and set up and it sold with in a few weeks.

My wife was the hardest part but as she saw the process unfold she was happy I did it that way and understood why. She didn't like not having the space for a month but she didn't understand the process until she saw it.

 

[JohnA26]

I'm currently researching a tank upgrade but as the move will be from a small-ish tank (30G) to a much larger one (140G), I don't plan on insta- moving, but rather more of a re-cycle and then a gradual introduction.
To many variables to manage/compensate for otherwise?! But that's just my opinion

Perfect discussion as I am upgrading from a 13.5G to 72 gallon this weekend. I have been told everything from cycle to no cycle, just add my 13 gallons of water, media, and so on, rock coal and animals with the new water. I am not thrilled with that later idea. I think I am going to do a 2 weekish cycle. The tank I bought is a used reef tank, but empty. So I will set up run for two weeks before I put coral and such in. What is everyone’s opinion?

also is this the time, as I will be adding several more fish, to do a new introduction as in most aggressive last and most calm first?

 

[blazn]

Like others have stated, I just call it a 'tank transfer', which I did earlier this year, moving the contents of a 40B to a 120. I plumbed and filled the 120 with fresh saltwater and I got alk/calc where I wanted. I was surprised to find that after I added the new sand and dry-rock aquascape that my alk/calc measurements were way out of balance. Based on research, I can only surmise it was the new dry-rock (silica, etc) that caused this. It took a couple weeks to get alk/calc back in balance, at which point I moved the entire contents of the 40B (fish/rock/MarinePure block) to the 120. I kept the lights lower than normal for 2 weeks and didn't have any noticeable ammonia spike but did have just a bit of an 'ugly' algae bloom, which a couple of low dosages of Vibrant solved. The actual process of the 'tank transfer' went much smoother than I had anticipated.

 

[LRT]

Perfect discussion as I am upgrading from a 13.5G to 72 gallon this weekend. I have been told everything from cycle to no cycle, just add my 13 gallons of water, media, and so on, rock coal and animals with the new water. I am not thrilled with that later idea. I think I am going to do a 2 weekish cycle. The tank I bought is a used reef tank, but empty. So I will set up run for two weeks before I put coral and such in. What is everyone’s opinion?

also is this the time, as I will be adding several more fish, to do a new introduction as in most aggressive last and most calm first?

That's a huge upgrade.
I feel like you would need a real tool of measurement for ammonia. In particular a Seneye.
From there I'd set up new tank. Move your rock over with some cuc and feed them what they can typically eat.
You may see a bump in ammonia first cpl times feeding. You can do this a cpl times in first 24hrs honestly.
Bump in ammonia very well could be in the thousandths and back down again. Which to me would be typical fish and livestock ready cycle done this way..
A standard ammonia test won't pick that up unfortunately.
A UV sterilizer would also be good to have because I'm sure you will see some kind of cloudy water event upgrading that much water. Nothing a UV wouldn't make short work of though.

 

[Appoloreefer]

Thanks to @LRT for the QOTD idea!

Have you ever moved the inhabitants of a reef aquarium to a new tank? Maybe it was a tank upgrade. Maybe you bought someone's entire reef and set it up in your own new tank. Would it need to cycle? Would there be a cycle? What would you even call that? Let's talk about it!

1. What would you call a fully transferred, instantly stocked tank? Insta Cycled or Insta Stocked or something else?

2. Have you ever relocated an existing reef ecosystem to a new tank and how did it go? Did you experience a cycle?

Image via @happyhourhero

If you are moving an entire tank and not changing anything then I would not think that there would be any cycle. Now I would think that if you were having to add a lot of water like you were going from a 90 gallon to a 300 gallon then there might be a cycle but I am not positive about that because I have never done anything like that. I did do an upgrade from a 20 gal to a 125 but it cycled.

 

[ReefRondo]

Tank transfer. I did this earlier in the year and it went without a hitch.

 

[christianb]

Transferred 40g to 110g system, existing live rock (except for 2 new live rock to build an arch), marine block, new sand, new water. 5 fish from old tank. about 2 weeks ago. no corals yet. I have yet to detect anything abnormal with water parameters, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, phosphate all read 0, ph stable at 8.2, salinity stable at 1.026 / 35ppt.

 

[Ef4life]

I would call it more of a transfer.

But I’ve done it a few times, once a tank started to leak si I did a replacement. Pulled the old down, rocks, fish, critters in buckets. I did not rinse the sand, just really cleaned well in the salt water. So like 85% clean of detritus. Plopped it all back in the new tank like it never happened.

last week I had to pull all the rock in an emergency fish extraction. I didn’t swap the tank, but it was empty down to the sand. Since it was empty, I Scrubbed and cleaned to almost looking new. Again I didn’t rinse the sand, but cleaned really well and got tons of junk out. Not fish or coral losses, besides some monti cap tissue that was just sitting out above water for an hour or 3

 

[homer1475]

I would just call it a transfer. All your doing is going from one tank to another. Maybe it's bigger, and you add more rock, but your not increasing bioload.

Insta cycle I would call adding rock, water, sand, and livestock on day one.