Introducing a clowns, what to look for.

[Salty_Box_Reef]

I've had my original juvenile true perc for about three weeks in my 14g, and introduced a yellow clown goby four days ago. They are fine with each other and the goby just kinda hangs out ontop of his blue mushroom and the perc leaves him be, occasionally treading water next to him until he gets board and leaves. Today I got a black and white perc that's also a juvenile and very similar in size. I tried to find one just as small or smaller but the first clown is pretty little so it was tough. The black clown might be ever so slightly larger but it's hard to tell.

They seem to be fine for the most part, with my original clown putting the new guy in his place every so often, but isn't relentless by any means, but definitely more so when feeding time came. I'm wondering how in theory this should pan out? Will the original clown grow larger than the new clown and become the female due to its dominance over the new clown even though it's smaller? Could my original clown become even more aggressive over time and they just won't ever work out?

 

[Tahoe61]

A lone clown becomes a female your existing clown might have been in the process. Hopefully the new clown is still sexually immature and will become the male. There will be spats and some noticed aggression. It's time to intervene when one clown is hiding in the corner or shows tattered fins and physical damage. If the existing clown is grabbing the new clown by the fin that is a bad sign and may need intervention. They can get along for extend periods of time and then the dominate one will once again display slight aggression if the newer clown does not show submissive behaviors the female will become more aggressive. So far is sounds like normal clown behavior.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

No actual grabbing. Marley(original clown) hangs with mobley(new clown) but then from time to time just gets ***** towards mobley. Mobley doesn't seem to mind much at all, and both are hanging at the front of the tank swimming in the current.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

Well five days into introducing the new clown and they still aren't very friendly with one another. The original clown will swim around the tank, and sporadically just darts over to put the new clown in his place. The new clown just kind of runs for a split second and that's as far as it goes. Then a minute or two later, same thing. The new clown kind of just keeps to himself, but if the original clown comes near him he isn't bothered by it at all... No rips or marks on either fish, just sporadic aggressive from one.

I had planned to move them both to my 35g on Monday, but I'm wondering if maybe I should take the clown back to the LFS, or if maybe I can curb the original clowns bully tendencies by acclimating him a few days after so he feels like he's coming into the new clowns house?

 

[Tahoe61]

This sounds like normal clown behavior. The female will exhibit this dominance behavior, it's her nature. If you return the clown you currently have you will probably see this same behavior, consider that new clowns always run the risk of introducing disease. If the residing clown was truely being aggressive there would be no doubt in your mind as to her intent, she would eventually kill any potential competition. It may take several weeks for the clowns to become cuddly. If you're not happy with the clown than yes return it, I would let the clowns work it out.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

Just looking for harmony in my little underwater world. I was expecting this behavior, just figured they would have worked it out in a couple days. She doesn't seem to have bad intentions, she's just a bully.

 

[Tahoe61]

And she will be a bully her entire life. I have one female clown that is so mean she will jump out of the water to bite me. She must be removed from the tank for any maintenance. Not all female clowns are as extreme, but harmony is usually not a word you will find to describe a female clown fish.
The clown fish will go through phases of cuddly behavior, then out of no where the female will start slamming the male, even if they have been together for years.
They are the most awesome fish, and my favorite, but aggression is the norm with the female and with the male to a lessor degree.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

Yep thats the way she is.. She isnt aggressive to me at all(yet?), and seems to actually enjoy when my hands are in the tank, as wel as gets along fine with my yellow clown goby, but is a sporatic brat to the male. They sleep together, and hang out together about 80% of the time piecfully, but that other 20% she's just a little shart.

When I introduce them to the new tank, how would you suggest I do so? At the same time? Her first, him first etc?

 

[Tahoe61]

I would just introduce both at the same time, it's amazing how quickly they bond. The male to my black and white miss-bars pair died sometime ago, my female did not eat or leave the back of the rocks for 2 weeks. I try not to associate animal behavior with human emotions but she was grieving , now unfortunately I will have a very hard time pairing her again.

 

[bct15]

When my 5 year old female perc died i did a ton of research on how to add the new clown. My female was about 4.5 inches long and my male was about 3 inches long so it was easy to find a smaller one. Issues arise when the new clown is the same size or larger then the old clown. The newest clown introduced should always be smaller then the older clown, to help reduce possibility of two females...which will not work. If you can, it is good to monitor the behavior of the clowns at the store and pick one that is exhibiting subordinate behavior or keeping to itself. Don't pick the one beating up all of the others because it is probably turning female. And don't pick one of the two that are constantly fighting because they both are probably females.

A good sign, when the two fish are quarreling, one of them rotates a little bit, extends fins and straitened it's body, then starts vibrating. This is a sign the male is relinquishing power to the female and assuming his role as the subordinate male. If you do not see this behavior, neither of the fish have given in and both are trying to struggle for power. If someone has not given in in a few months the fish might need to be separates so they don't kill each other. Once one gives in, they will be a pair.

When I added my new clown, within ten minutes of adding the new clown they were swimming together and are inseparable. It took all of ten minutes for my old clown to show the new one how to host in the frogspawn and torch corals. It was neat to watch.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

A little update here, and maybe some can chime in on their thoughts. It's been almost two weeks and the original clown got a little more aggressive and the new clown kind of just kept its distance. They slept together in the corner of the tank at night and still do. Now the new clown basically just hangs in the corner and comes out to the middle of the tank every so often, but not regularly. The original clown still slams the newer clown from time to time but she's deffinately mellowed out a lot more over the last two days. Hopefully they will start spending some quality time together here soon and the femal chills a bit. Is them sleeping together a good sign?

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

Update: moved my clowns over from my 14g biocube to my 24x24 35g.. They are like best friends now. Won't leave each other's side and swim the whole tank together. I'm assuming it's because the female had gotten territorial over the biocube and it was "her house", and now they just signed a mortgage on a new place together so it's "their place".

 

[bct15]

When my clowns were spawning, the male hardly ever left the frogspawn they hosted while the female would swim in about half the tank so staying in the corner may not be a bad sign as long as the other one is not keeping it there, if it is being ostracized to the corner by the dominant clown then there is a problem. Sleeping together is a good sign.

After my large female died I repaired the male and this pair stays within a few inches of eachother all the time, they both don't venture far from their corner with the torch and frogspawn. At feeding time the smaller one comes out and the male stays near the frogspawn like it used to when it was the male...I guess some clowns don't like leaving their host.