Inverts keep dying

Servopkg · Apr 5, 2020

Lost two cinnamon shrimp (one overnight, next about 2 weeks later just a few days after it molted), now I just lost an emerald crab - 1 week in the tank. LFS does not have a guaranty on live animals. This makes me sad. Not sure whats killing them, but all my readings are stable. The tank is 8 wks old and all the fish are doing well (two clowns & one Goby). Snails are also doing well and my blue legged hermit crabs are too. I thought I was feeding the shrimp and crab plenty, understanding they are nocturnal. Let me know recommendations if I decide to get them (maybe after the 6+ month mark). Would really like to try again...but hesitant.

Peace River · Apr 5, 2020

First #WelcometoR2R!

Is there any chance that there has ever been copper in your tank?

#reefsquad

Servopkg · Apr 5, 2020

Peace River said:
First #WelcometoR2R!

Is there any chance that there has ever been copper in your tank?

#reefsquad

I sure hope not. I drip acclimate all my fishes / inverts and then scoop them out before putting them in my tank. I've never tested for copper, but I think my LHS does copper treatments.

Servopkg · Apr 5, 2020

and thanks! Love this site...I spend a lot of time reading here, it has sometimes too much info!!

Peace River · Apr 5, 2020

You mentioned the tank is 8 weeks old. Is this a new or used tank? IMO I think it is worth testing for copper. Hopefully others will chime in soon with their thoughts.

KleineVampir · Apr 5, 2020

Sorry if I piggyback off this thread but I have the same problem. The fish seem fine but I'm having trouble with the inverts. Cleaner shrimp not doing too well and almost all snails, all except the very toughest oddball every now and then, are dead. So snails most affected but the recent death of my cleaner shrimp suggests that it's pretty much all inverts having a tough time. Is it because I'm putting in too much soda ash at once? I do calcium day 1, day 2 is soda ash...so they alternate days. Are snails really that sensitive to alkalinity changes?

saltyhog · Apr 5, 2020

Could you guys post pictures of your tanks and list your parameters?

Shrimp can be sensitive to super high nutrients. How long after addition are the snails/shrimp dying? Do you find the dead shrimp/snails intact? Did you start with dry rock or live rock?

Predators (whelks, mantis shrimp, eucinid worms), toxins(insecticides) would be thoughts.

Mastiffsrule · Apr 5, 2020

Sorry your having troubles, you have the right folk to help.

Just wanted to ask on if I may, any possible other enemies fish or otherwise. And were they confirmed or just missing?

Hopeful a solution will be found. Inverts are awesome. And welcome

KleineVampir · Apr 5, 2020

saltyhog said:
Could you guys post pictures of your tanks and list your parameters?

Shrimp can be sensitive to super high nutrients. How long after addition are the snails/shrimp dying? Do you find the dead shrimp/snails intact? Did you start with dry rock or live rock?

Predators (whelks, mantis shrimp, eucinid worms), toxins(insecticides) would be thoughts.

Could insecticide 50 feet away sitting there in a bottle with the cap on actually affect the inverts in my tank? Totally insane if it did. There are some chemicals in my basement along with the tank but pretty far away and not in active use.

Honestly they are dying pretty quickly. Not immediately but they begin dying off at a decent clip of 1 or 2 a day from the beginning. But maybe more towards the end. That's what happened with my turbos. That seems to be roughly in line with me spiking the alkalinity by dumping too much in. I switched to liquid (so it's kinda hard to judge) and I've been dosing once every other day, so kind of a big dose.

As far as nutrients, the algae uptakes it quickly. Should be happening in my scrubber more than anything but with my algae problems...well, it takes nitrates and phosphates off my hands pretty quick!

RudyvandenBerg · Apr 5, 2020

That does sound like copper is leaching in somewhere... inverts get very dead when copper is present. I would test asap.

KleineVampir · Apr 5, 2020

RudyvandenBerg said:
That does sound like copper is leaching in somewhere... inverts get very dead when copper is present. I would test asap.

And where would that copper be coming from? I guess I could get a copper test kit, lord knows how long that's gonna take to get. But isn't it more logical to assume that it's me dumping in like a cup of soda ash every other day?

Servopkg · Apr 5, 2020

Peace River said:
You mentioned the tank is 8 weeks old. Is this a new or used tank? IMO I think it is worth testing for copper. Hopefully others will chime in soon with their thoughts.

Thanks for the reply. My tank is brand new, its an Fluval Evo 13.5 gal. I'll certainly pick up a copper test kit. Any recommendations? My current test kits are red sea and Hanna but LFS has others like API and Salifert.

KleineVampir · Apr 5, 2020

Servopkg said:
Thanks for the reply. My tank is brand new, its an Fluval Evo 13.5 gal. I'll certainly pick up a copper test kit. Any recommendations? My current test kits are red sea and Hanna but LFS has others like API and Salifert.

Your tank has only been running for 2 weeks? If your water is that brand new, there's your answer. Heck they're probably starving to death! I think it takes a while to have a matured enough aquarium for inverts. I'd stick to fish for a while.

Servopkg · Apr 5, 2020

My prob is still associated with shrimp and crab. Never lost one blue legged hermit crab and they have been in the tank since March 7th.

pH- 7.8 - 8.0
Alkalinity from 5-8
Nitrates now - 0, some algae is sucking it down now as i am in the ugly phase. Got my CUC to help .. but they die.
Nitrites / Ammonia - 0
Salinity - 1.025
Phosphate - 0.02

Im adjusting for alkalinity by adding KH and yesterday I just dosed 1ml to the DT to try and lower the algae.

I also get my water from my lab at work, very expensive RO/DI system that has 0 TDS. I mix my own salt water in 5 gallon buckets to 1.025

sarcophytonIndy · Apr 5, 2020

Are you running carbon? If so, it will remove all the copper eventually. In any case, you might want to pump the breaks on new purchases for a while. Eight weeks is so young in the life of a reef tank. I think you might have better results after a couple more months.

KleineVampir · Apr 5, 2020

And maybe take it easy on the soda ash dosing. I'm thinking about getting a cheap single dosing pump for alk since it seems to be a sore spot. I think they can deal with calc and magnesium levels rising but the inverts do not like that soda ash!

r20crazy · Apr 5, 2020

that's a huge swing in your Alk readings....

Servopkg · Apr 6, 2020

r20crazy said:
that's a huge swing in your Alk readings....

I'll make sure Alk in my water change water is closer to 8 from now on.

Servopkg · Apr 6, 2020

KleineVampir said:
And maybe take it easy on the soda ash dosing. I'm thinking about getting a cheap single dosing pump for alk since it seems to be a sore spot. I think they can deal with calc and magnesium levels rising but the inverts do not like that soda ash!

I'm not dosing soda ash, perfer we stick to my topic as I was the one who started it.

Servopkg · Apr 6, 2020

KleineVampir said:
Your tank has only been running for 2 weeks? If your water is that brand new, there's your answer. Heck they're probably starving to death! I think it takes a while to have a matured enough aquarium for inverts. I'd stick to fish for a while.

Nope, tanks been running 8 wks not 2. After 4 wk mark I got CUC, just a few snails and blue legged hermit crab, than two clown and then a few inverts all a week apart. Will take it slow.