Iodine

[Gtinnel]

I've been on the fence about dosing trace elements, and I've decided to start buying test kits for the elements we can test for from home. From what I understand Iodine is possibly one of the more important trace elements. I swear the more I read about iodine the less I understand but here goes what I think I may know.

Iodine is an element but it is also a compound (I2). When I2 is added to a reef tank it is quickly broken down to the unstable iodide (I-) that bonds with another element, and the more stable iodate (IO3-). Assuming I have this right why is it that the salifert iodine test is testing for iodine (I2) since it gets broken down? Is it correct to test iodine with a salifert test and dose the trace element based upon that test?

If anyone could explain to me any part of my understanding of iodine that is wrong I'd appreciate it. You may need to dumb it down and explain it to me like you were talking to a young child.

 

[Spieg]

I'd test for Iodine, Potassium, Iron and Strontium if you're going down that road. I find it easier to do ICP testing and make dosing adjustments based on that.

 

[Gtinnel]

I'd test for Iodine, Potassium, Iron and Strontium if you're going down that road. I find it easier to do ICP testing and make dosing adjustments based on that.

I had another thread a while back and that was the consensus that I need to have an ICP test, but I like the ability to test from home relatively frequently at least for the more important elements. I'm considering dosing the tropic marin A and K elements. Since I am not planning on doing a system like triton where I add individual elements I am not sure if knowing every element individually is needed.
I know that blindly dosing a tank is generally not a good idea, but isn't dosing these two additives basically what everyone who uses AFR is doing?

 

[taricha]

Iodine is an element but it is also a compound (I2). When I2 is added to a reef tank it is quickly broken down to the unstable iodide (I-) that bonds with another element, and the more stable iodate (IO3-). Assuming I have this right why is it that the salifert iodine test is testing for iodine (I2) since it gets broken down? Is it correct to test iodine with a salifert test and dose the trace element based upon that test?

from what I see, Salifert tests for iodide (primarily), and iodate, and I2 (secondary)

Dosing is probably best in the form of iodide, since I2 can be harmful to organisms. Most iodine supplements for reefs do this already. I think most other tests will also respond to Iodide, and it's fine to track just that ion, probably.

Pull randy's iodine article for more.

 

[Gtinnel]

from what I see, Salifert tests for iodide (primarily), and iodate, and I2 (secondary)

Dosing is probably best in the form of iodide, since I2 can be harmful to organisms. Most iodine supplements for reefs do this already. I think most other tests will also respond to Iodide, and it's fine to track just that ion, probably.

Pull randy's iodine article for more.

From what I understand the salifert test has 2 color charts and I have no clue why. I tried to watch YouTube videos of someone performing the test but all of them that I've found are in a foreign language.

All of the dosing solutions I've considered contain multiple trace elements, and for iodine it is listed as Iodine. I'm not sure if that is I2 or is it just the element iodine in a different form, like Iodide, and I'm not sure if it even matters which one it is.

I didn't know Randy had an article about Iodine, thanks for linking it. I will go and read it and hopefully it isn't too far over my head.

For people who dose broad trace element solutions like A and K from tropic marin or the ABCD from Red Sea, and not single elements, how does knowing the amount of every trace element in the tank help if you can't adjust them individually? I'm strongly considering just keeping up with my AWC and sending off one ICP to test to see if it's maintaining everything I need. When I start talking about trace elements I don't understand how people do it without blindly adding elements, or does everyone just do ICP tests regularly?

 

[Nano sapiens]

I'm strongly considering just keeping up with my AWC and sending off one ICP to test to see if it's maintaining everything I need. When I start talking about trace elements I don't understand how people do it without blindly adding elements, or does everyone just do ICP tests regularly?

The debate around whether adding trace elements are necessary/beneficial is nearly as old as reef keeping itself. Like so many things in this hobby, 'It depends'.

In a typical reef system that has regular WC's, iodine will likely not be depleted unless the bio load is very high (a good salt mix typically has more than enough trace elements). Since there are many different species of iodine, and a hobbyist test kit will not give you the levels of most (or may not be all that accurate), an ICP test is a better way to go to help determine if a deficiency is possibly present.

Having said that, old school reefers such as myself might dose iodine more out of habit than anything else (supposed to help with mushroom health, invert moltings, etc.). I use a very low 'maintenance' dose and an ICP test showed that my system that has 10%/wk WCs had somewhat elevate iodine, which is what I expected.

 

[minus9]

If you really want to take the deep dive into dosing trace elements, then I would look into the Reef Moonshiners method. There are plenty of us that follow the method and the results are pretty good, if not great. One of the benefits of the method is the absence of water changes. I'm super old school (and so are some of the notable users), so I like to keep it simple and Andre has done all the work for you. Just download his handbook for free and give it a read.

 

[flagg37]

I didn’t do any water changes in my 120 gallon tank and so I started dosing the Red Sea colors. They base their dosing off of the calcium uptake; which makes a lot of sense but isn’t foolproof. Not all systems will use up the elements in the same ratio so you get what you’re talking about where some elements will have a surplus and others will be deficient. I had a refugium and so mine seemed to always be deficient in iron. I say seemed because I never actually tested for it. My conclusion was based off of watching my system respond.

I agree that icp is a great option. If you want to just buy 4 or 5 of the key elements to have on hand, there’s an argument to be made for that too. Also, there are diy recipes for making many of the elements so you don’t have to buy name brand stuff that is marked up 100 fold or more.

 

[Gtinnel]

If you really want to take the deep dive into dosing trace elements, then I would look into the Reef Moonshiners method. There are plenty of us that follow the method and the results are pretty good, if not great. One of the benefits of the method is the absence of water changes. I'm super old school (and so are some of the notable users), so I like to keep it simple and Andre has done all the work for you. Just download his handbook for free and give it a read.

I've briefly looked at it, but I've never seriously considered any system where I dose single elements. I may look into it a little more, but I honestly doubt I'll take that approach. Partially because I'm uncomfortable going against my norm, which is to do water changes.

 

[Gtinnel]

I didn’t do any water changes in my 120 gallon tank and so I started dosing the Red Sea colors. They base their dosing off of the calcium uptake; which makes a lot of sense but isn’t foolproof. Not all systems will use up the elements in the same ratio so you get what you’re talking about where some elements will have a surplus and others will be deficient. I had a refugium and so mine seemed to always be deficient in iron. I say seemed because I never actually tested for it. My conclusion was based off of watching my system respond.

I agree that icp is a great option. If you want to just buy 4 or 5 of the key elements to have on hand, there’s an argument to be made for that too. Also, there are diy recipes for making many of the elements so you don’t have to buy name brand stuff that is marked up 100 fold or more.

I do an AWC that I've always assumed/hoped keeps my elements within acceptable ranges. I wasn't aware there were diy options for some of the trace elements.
As much money as I spend on the tank I'd think spending the $50 to do an ICP test wouldn't be a big deal, but for some reason I'm really trying to avoid it and I can't justify why? Which I realize sounds crazy.

 

[flagg37]

I do an AWC that I've always assumed/hoped keeps my elements within acceptable ranges. I wasn't aware there were diy options for some of the trace elements.
As much money as I spend on the tank I'd think spending the $50 to do an ICP test wouldn't be a big deal, but for some reason I'm really trying to avoid it and I can't justify why? Which I realize sounds crazy.

I don’t think it sounds crazy at all. There’s a component of maintaining direct and immediate control of your system when you test and dose your self. You get an immediate answer right when you need it and can address any problems on the spot and you can retest to verify that the action you took did what you wanted it to. ICP is just another tool to use. It has its pros and cons just like any other tool.

Let me see if I can find some of those diy recipes. They were linked on my local club’s site.

 

[Gtinnel]

Has anyone used the ICP test that is distributed by CoralVue. They get a lot of bad reviews but most of them are about the test taking too long which I've read they were behind in 2020 due to a change in testing site. I did read one reviewer who claimed that they made a reference solution of know values and had it tested and the results weren't even close, but its just one random reviewer so who know how accurate his "known" solution was.

 

[Cantusaurus]

I totally get your concerns. The Iodine/Iodide/Iodate names are confusing.
First off I would ask. Do you need to dose it? If you have only a couple corals then it may not make sense to dose it. If you have a good amount of coral that need it then you probably should. I hear some people dose 'Lugols Solution' which WILL be bad if added in too high of concentrations. Lugols is like the disinfectant dark Iodine. I think most of the time you only need like one drop for 50 gallons (don't quote me on that). But I use Seachem Reef Iodide. It is able to be MUCH more safely dosed. I started dosing it consistently every other day slightly below what is recommended.
I have noticed no issues, and if anything things have looked better.
I heave Iodide/Iodine levels get depleted rapidly especially if there are a lot of corals.

It is ultimately up to you, but I would recommend not using Lugols just in case.

I hate the phrasing "water changes will replenish trace elements"
There is truth to that definitely, but it all depends on the type of tank.
Even a tank that has regular water changes done may deplete a lot of a certain element because of certain corals or something like a refugium macoalgae taking some of them.
I think dosing trace elements is good, but only do it if you need to (if you have a good amount of corals or life reliant on the elements), and just be a bit more conservative with dosing.
I don't test for Iodine levels despite dosing, but only because I am very confident I am not overdosing it.

 

[Gtinnel]

I totally get your concerns. The Iodine/Iodide/Iodate names are confusing.
First off I would ask. Do you need to dose it? If you have only a couple corals then it may not make sense to dose it. If you have a good amount of coral that need it then you probably should. I hear some people dose 'Lugols Solution' which WILL be bad if added in too high of concentrations. Lugols is like the disinfectant dark Iodine. I think most of the time you only need like one drop for 50 gallons (don't quote me on that). But I use Seachem Reef Iodide. It is able to be MUCH more safely dosed. I started dosing it consistently every other day slightly below what is recommended.
I have noticed no issues, and if anything things have looked better.
I heave Iodide/Iodine levels get depleted rapidly especially if there are a lot of corals.

It is ultimately up to you, but I would recommend not using Lugols just in case.

I hate the phrasing "water changes will replenish trace elements"
There is truth to that definitely, but it all depends on the type of tank.
Even a tank that has regular water changes done may deplete a lot of a certain element because of certain corals or something like a refugium macoalgae taking some of them.
I think dosing trace elements is good, but only do it if you need to (if you have a good amount of corals or life reliant on the elements), and just be a bit more conservative with dosing.
I don't test for Iodine levels despite dosing, but only because I am very confident I am not overdosing it.

The only truthful answer I can give on whether I need to dose it is "I have no clue", since I've never tested for it. I have a fairly large amounts of corals but many of them are still realities small since I have only been seriously keeping corals for a little over a year. I am leaning more heavily toward stony corals, which from what I understand Iodine is more for soft corals (but I may be wrong). I have no interest in regularly dosing single trace elements, so my hopes were to test (with test kits not icp) the ones that appear to be most important and dose a 2 part trace element solution based upon those few elements. Then after doing it for long enough I would get an icp test to make sure I'm not adding too much of any specific element.
Now, I'm seriously just contemplating doing an icp test to see if dosing would even be beneficial for me, instead of adding trace elements and then doing an ICP test. I don't see how me blindly adding tropic marin A and K is any different than the people who dose All For Reef that contain those elements without doing ICP testing.

 

[DrZoidburg]

When iodine is added to water its not the same as solid iodine. It is soluble. Ideally iodide, and iodate convert back and forth. With intermediates, and possible organic bound species. Some things like ph, other anions, and oxygen concentration can contribute to what is present at any given time.

 

[flagg37]

@Gtinnel, here’s the link for the diy trace elements on my local club’s site.

WTB SPS

I'm looking for a good size frag of the following... Cali Tort Oregon Tort SC Orange Passion Pink Lemonade Walt Disney Pink Cadillac Any non-green milli I'm open to others as long as they're not tiny nubs. Willing to pay but also open to trading high-end zoos and shrooms.

www.marinecolorado.org

 

[Gtinnel]

@Gtinnel, here’s the link for the diy trace elements on my local club’s site.

WTB SPS

I'm looking for a good size frag of the following... Cali Tort Oregon Tort SC Orange Passion Pink Lemonade Walt Disney Pink Cadillac Any non-green milli I'm open to others as long as they're not tiny nubs. Willing to pay but also open to trading high-end zoos and shrooms.

www.marinecolorado.org

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've been on the fence about dosing trace elements, and I've decided to start buying test kits for the elements we can test for from home. From what I understand Iodine is possibly one of the more important trace elements. I swear the more I read about iodine the less I understand but here goes what I think I may know.

Iodine is an element but it is also a compound (I2). When I2 is added to a reef tank it is quickly broken down to the unstable iodide (I-) that bonds with another element, and the more stable iodate (IO3-). Assuming I have this right why is it that the salifert iodine test is testing for iodine (I2) since it gets broken down? Is it correct to test iodine with a salifert test and dose the trace element based upon that test?

If anyone could explain to me any part of my understanding of iodine that is wrong I'd appreciate it. You may need to dumb it down and explain it to me like you were talking to a young child.

I explain everything you'd want to know about iodine chemistry and biochemistry in the following articles, EXCEPT whether it is necessary or useful to dose it to a reef tank.

There are plenty of folks that claim it useful in their aquaria, but there are also many people who think they have seen a ghost. Do not just accept the idea that it IS useful. I suggest going with it MAY be useful, and dose it as an experiment to see for yourself if it appears to be useful.

It was not visibly useful in my aquarium. I dosed iodide for years, and then stopped. Nothing apparent changed.

Most of the organisms we keep do not have a scientifically demonstrated need for iodine in the water. Certainly some organisms do, but most reefers to not keep those.


Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine In Reef Tanks 2: Effects On Macroalgae Growth ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

 

[Gtinnel]

I explain everything you'd want to know about iodine chemistry and biochemistry in the following articles, EXCEPT whether it is necessary or useful to dose it to a reef tank.

There are plenty of folks that claim it useful in their aquaria, but there are also many people who think they have seen a ghost. Do not just accept the idea that it IS useful. I suggest going with it MAY be useful, and dose it as an experiment to see for yourself if it appears to be useful.

It was not visibly useful in my aquarium. I dosed iodide for years, and then stopped. Nothing apparent changed.

Most of the organisms we keep do not have a scientifically demonstrated need for iodine in the water. Certainly some organisms do, but most reefers to not keep those.


Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine In Reef Tanks 2: Effects On Macroalgae Growth ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

In your opinion would it be a bad idea to get some of the trace elements solutions and blindly dose them (without icp testing) to see if there is any change in my tank? Then base weather I decide to keep dosing on how my tank reacts.

I guess what I'm actually wanting to know is that if my levels of a trace element get too high will my tank show it gradually so I can see there is an issue and stop dosing or will it be a quick decline like waking up to a bunch of RTN.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In your opinion would it be a bad idea to get some of the trace elements solutions and blindly dose them (without icp testing) to see if there is any change in my tank? Then base weather I decide to keep dosing on how my tank reacts.

I guess what I'm actually wanting to know is that if my levels of a trace element get too high will my tank show it gradually so I can see there is an issue and stop dosing or will it be a quick decline like waking up to a bunch of RTN.

It is not optimal to blindly dose, but that's what everyone did before ICP became widely used, and folks were often successful.