ION Director - measuring Ca + Mg

[Torben]

The only thing keeping me from swapping to GHL is the ability to get rid of most of my power blocks. With GHL ill still have to plug everything in and thats alot of plugs

Powerhub 6D-PAB
Here is the hard-wired option to get rid of all plugs.

 

[Potatohead]

Well now I know what I am asking for for Xmas. Nice

 

[porter_painter]

Hello @Matthias Gross

I hope you are well.

I was just watching a video about one of the competitor’s ion testers and they have talked about having salinity as an option for testing. (I won’t post up the details of the competitor out of courtesy, but if you would like the information I can PM you a link).

I appreciate that GHL already have a conductivity probe available, so having salinity checked via the Ion Director doubles up, and removes an option for a new parameter check. However, of all my probes it’s always the conductivity probe requires the most calibrating and is the most expensive to replace - so having a ion test choice could be favourable.

Looking at the other product, it seems they have ion probes which are easily interchanged. I don’t know if that will be the same for the Ion Director, but it would be interesting if GHL offered multiple choice in tests/probes with the customer deciding which 5 parameters they wanted the Director to test

Best regards
Andy

 

[Matthias Gross]

Hi Andy,

I know about which product you are talking about, I saw 2 videos from Reefapalooza where the Coral Vue sales rep (it seems they are going to import it to the US exclusively) makes huge promises.
After working on this topic for years now and doing LOTS of research and knowing exactly what probes from which vendor they use I must honestly admit that I have a few problems to see how they want to fulfil all their promises, especially in regards of prices and life time.
But this only on a side-note, this is their business. They state to start selling in Autumn, then we all know more. At least about the prices, not yet about the life-time.

We try to figure out what makes most sense in regards to recurring costs for the customer. It also should be easy to use, flexible and reliable, of course.
Still not the right time to reveal the details of our concept.

About conductivity measurement. I never calibrate it, it is the only sensor which needs no calibration in theory since there are no electrochemical processes involved. Just 2 platium plates. If they stay clean and without air bubbles between them the measurement values must stay rock solid. It is important that the temperature compensation is OK, the temp. sensor must be nearby the cond. sensor and be OK.

This brings us to the next problem, besides the extra costs. We would need a temp. compensation in the measurement cell.
I doubt that the "maybe" benefit justifies the extra costs for all users.

PS: I think your cond. problem is a bit off topic, if there is something we can help you with we should take you in direct personal support, we should try to solve it there

 

[Dukeap]

Hi Andy,

I know about which product you are talking about, I saw 2 videos from Reefapalooza where the Coral Vue sales rep (it seems they are going to import it to the US exclusively) makes huge promises.
After working on this topic for years now and doing LOTS of research and knowing exactly what probes from which vendor they use I must honestly admit that I have a few problems to see how they want to fulfil all their promises, especially in regards of prices and life time.
But this only on a side-note, this is their business. They state to start selling in Autumn, then we all know more. At least about the prices, not yet about the life-time.

We try to figure out what makes most sense in regards to recurring costs for the customer. It also should be easy to use, flexible and reliable, of course.
Still not the right time to reveal the details of our concept.

About conductivity measurement. I never calibrate it, it is the only sensor which needs no calibration in theory since there are no electrochemical processes involved. Just 2 platium plates. If they stay clean and without air bubbles between them the measurement values must stay rock solid. It is important that the temperature compensation is OK, the temp. sensor must be nearby the cond. sensor and be OK.

This brings us to the next problem, besides the extra costs. We would need a temp. compensation in the measurement cell.
I doubt that the "maybe" benefit justifies the extra costs for all users.

PS: I think your cond. problem is a bit off topic, if there is something we can help you with we should take you in direct personal support, we should try to solve it there

I agree, I also saw the video and there was alot of things said that seem more like selling then true facts, they also said maybe on the cond. Probe.

Remember the also brought out an alk reader a while back that had some problems and reviews were mixed about it. So that gives me mixed feelings but will have to see when it comes out.

 

[wayhighcoral]

Agree with most that has been said here and the other ION Director thread, but here are two new thoughts that I did not see:

1. Not expert chemistry level here, but I do have more than layman understanding of current technology. IME phosphate will be difficult to do effectively with a probe. Perhaps consider a separate box like the KH director for phosphate using reagents rather than trying a compromise solution for this parameter within the ID. I can hear the moaning from other posters in this thread, but unless there is very new technology of which I am not aware it seems unlikely that there will be a satisfactory phosphate/probe solution ready for this product. If cost could be kept reasonable (including doser head requirements) I think this would be a viable path.

2. What about optional configurations or, better yet, user swappable probes for the ID? From my understanding of the device this seems like it could be feasible, and this would be a very unique feature that may increase sales, open up the possibility of adding a probe based phosphate solution when(if) it comes available, and could even result in multiple ID purchases for the same system. Some serious upside to this. I'll leave the downsides to your imagination.

Just my 2 cents. I've added the ID to my (already very long) GHL wishlist with just Ca and Mg in the mix.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Yes, phosphate in these small concentrations is hard to measure. We are considering and testing all reasonable options.

User swappable probes: This is the plan.

 

[Davy Jones]

Cant wait to see this! Between the controller, kh director, ion director, maxi 2.1 for AWC, the tank can be nearly 100% automated. Here is how I see it:

Kh director obviously controlls/monitors alk
Ion director controls/monitors cal, mag, n03, p04
Set up an auto feeder. n03/po4 get low? Up the feeding! Starts swinging up? Lower the feeding! Or Up the Auto waterchange!
Or use the ion director with a fuge/algae reactor. N03 rises? Up the time on your fuge light. Or set up a dosing head to dose carbon to the tank to lower nutrients, or just dial it in for your tank.

You could likely get even more creative. If nutrient values go up, you could increase lighting/ photo period/Flow. You can use the monitoring to tell you if a change is beneficial to the coral or detrimental using the test values and history.

At the cost of well Money, you gain insight into nearly everything in your tank. Any change you make and how it effects the system, keeping things more stable than many have ever achieved before etc. I would love that kind of information to see.

 

[porter_painter]

Hi Andy,

I know about which product you are talking about, I saw 2 videos from Reefapalooza where the Coral Vue sales rep (it seems they are going to import it to the US exclusively) makes huge promises.
After working on this topic for years now and doing LOTS of research and knowing exactly what probes from which vendor they use I must honestly admit that I have a few problems to see how they want to fulfil all their promises, especially in regards of prices and life time.
But this only on a side-note, this is their business. They state to start selling in Autumn, then we all know more. At least about the prices, not yet about the life-time.

We try to figure out what makes most sense in regards to recurring costs for the customer. It also should be easy to use, flexible and reliable, of course.
Still not the right time to reveal the details of our concept.

About conductivity measurement. I never calibrate it, it is the only sensor which needs no calibration in theory since there are no electrochemical processes involved. Just 2 platium plates. If they stay clean and without air bubbles between them the measurement values must stay rock solid. It is important that the temperature compensation is OK, the temp. sensor must be nearby the cond. sensor and be OK.

This brings us to the next problem, besides the extra costs. We would need a temp. compensation in the measurement cell.
I doubt that the "maybe" benefit justifies the extra costs for all users.

PS: I think your cond. problem is a bit off topic, if there is something we can help you with we should take you in direct personal support, we should try to solve it there

Hi Matthias,

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I imagine it must be difficult to strike the balance of longevity, ease of use and cost when there are so many options available.

That makes sense to me that the need for temperature compensation that it is likely to be better to continue to measure salinity via the conductivity probe rather that the ion probe route. I’m sure when all these products come to market there will be comparisons on functionality, so to understand the rationale why GHL may not offer salinity via the ID is useful.

That’s interesting about conductivity probes. Mine has always lived in a probe holder next to the temp probe. I guess each time I calibrate a probe I always clean it, so perhaps it was the cleaning only that was needed. My probe is coming to the end of its natural life anyway, so no need to look at a support ticket - but I appreciate the offer of help.

Thanks again and keep up the good work

Andy

 

[Dominic Prezwanski]

Apex compatible??

 

[Torx]

Apex compatible??

This is a joke right? LoL.

This is a GHL product. It works with the GHL Profilux or stand alone.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Quick status update:

Prototyping phase for electronics finished, design of the first release V1.00 completed, production of the preproduction series starts in 3 weeks. After our test of these boards there will probably be some finetuning, afterwards the first batch can be started. So at the moment we are absolutely on schedule.

I just ordered V1.00 boards (here a screenshot from my EDA system):

 

[Torx]

Quick status update:

Prototyping phase for electronics finished, design of the first release V1.00 completed, production of the preproduction series starts in 3 weeks. After our test of these boards there will probably be some finetuning, afterwards the first batch can be started. So at the moment we are absolutely on schedule.

I just ordered V1.00 boards (here a screenshot from my EDA system):

I am vibrating over here. This is great to hear.

 

[Brew12]

Quick status update:

Prototyping phase for electronics finished, design of the first release V1.00 completed, production of the preproduction series starts in 3 weeks. After our test of these boards there will probably be some finetuning, afterwards the first batch can be started. So at the moment we are absolutely on schedule.

I just ordered V1.00 boards (here a screenshot from my EDA system):

I'm not sure I've ever seen this much candid information on any pre-release product in any industry. My mind is completely blown. Thank you for the update.

 

[leepink23]

Quick status update:

Prototyping phase for electronics finished, design of the first release V1.00 completed, production of the preproduction series starts in 3 weeks. After our test of these boards there will probably be some finetuning, afterwards the first batch can be started. So at the moment we are absolutely on schedule.

I just ordered V1.00 boards (here a screenshot from my EDA system):

Is there a for sure on the calcium, mg and nitrate?

 

[Matthias Gross]

Is there a for sure on the calcium, mg and nitrate?

yes

 

[Ursala]

Wow! This is going to be a game changer, especially if Po4 is added to the mix. Trident step aside.

 

[Davy Jones]

yes

Any chance you plan on releasing a mega set...? As in, p4 + Kh Director + Ion directory + Dosers needed? Id love to see an option where I could just buy the "Ghl Complete reef automation set" or something like that that includes everything

 

[Potatohead]

Any chance you plan on releasing a mega set...? As in, p4 + Kh Director + Ion directory + Dosers needed? Id love to see an option where I could just buy the "Ghl Complete reef automation set" or something like that that includes everything

They should call it "The Full Meal Deal" and include a bratwurst with it.

 

[Entz]

Any chance you plan on releasing a mega set...? As in, p4 + Kh Director + Ion directory + Dosers needed? Id love to see an option where I could just buy the "Ghl Complete reef automation set" or something like that that includes everything

"ISwitchedFromNeptunePack". GHL is gonna hit a home run with the Ion Director. Looking forward to the final product.

Beer also works @Potatohead .