Is a Radion XR15 enough for SPS on cube tank

[Billldg]

I currently use a Aquatic life hybrid with 2 xr15’s g4 pros with diffusers on a 48x24x24 tank. At 80 percent led power and t5’s on I get 150 to 200 par at the bottom and 300 to 400 on top in aquascape where my sps are. I also have a Apogee 210 on sun setting, it’s the most accurate setting.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I currently use a Aquatic life hybrid with 2 xr15’s g4 pros with diffusers on a 48x24x24 tank. At 80 percent led power and t5’s on I get 150 to 200 par at the bottom and 300 to 400 on top in aquascape where my sps are. I also have a Apogee 210 on sun setting, it’s the most accurate setting.

I've had my Apogee set to "Electric", not "Sun." (Need to read up on that I guess). If I try the "Sun" setting do you know if the values should be lower or higher?

 

[Billldg]

I've had my Apogee set to "Electric", not "Sun." (Need to read up on that I guess). If I try the "Sun" setting do you know if the values should be lower or higher?

It varies depending on the spectrum, Dana Riddle sent me some studies he had done on 3 par meters and compared them to a Lecor and the results showed that the 210 on sun setting was the closet to the Lecor.

I do believe they were higher though.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I have a 24" cube with a G4 XR15 over it plus a 250w halide. The Radion is there for aesthetics only and I would not rely on it for much more. Sure it will light the tank and will be "fine" and "good enough" but my goal is sps dominant and I don't like to skimp.
I love the LEDs and if I were to only have LEDs I would be doing maybe 3 XR15s over my cube or 2 XR30s to match the spread/coverage/output of my halide.

How do you fit, and mount, the halide and XR15? I've been thinking about doing this with my cube. I've also been thinking about ways to mix halides with Radions when I set up my next tank (about 300 gal); (waiting for my house to sell and move). But with two rows of XR15's it seems like there may not be much space for halides (unless using very small reflectors. I've always used, and liked, Lumen Brites).

 

[Gungo]

I have a 24" cube with a G4 XR15 over it plus a 250w halide. The Radion is there for aesthetics only and I would not rely on it for much more. Sure it will light the tank and will be "fine" and "good enough" but my goal is sps dominant and I don't like to skimp.
I love the LEDs and if I were to only have LEDs I would be doing maybe 3 XR15s over my cube or 2 XR30s to match the spread/coverage/output of my halide.

Could you post a picture of how it looks?

 

[Dr. Jim]

G4's are a proven light and work. However you might benefit from a better blanket of light than 1 XR15. There are of course several options to increase the spread. I honestly think the 1 light can do the job but it might be a bit on the lite side of things.

1. Add a 24" T5 fixture to the set up. T5 and LED is an awesome combination. Well worth considering

24" Hybrid T5HO 4x24W Fixture With One Circular Mounting Bracket - Black

Limited Time: Circular Mounting Bracket Included! Welcome to the future of aquarium lighting! Combine your favorite LED Light module between proven T5 lights to create the ultimate lighting system! Accepts one Ecotech, AI, or Kessil LED Light Module Includes LED Light Brackets Powder Coated...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

2. Add a second Gen 4 or a Gen 5 (I'm looking at adding two G5s to my 3 G4s just to run them at 50 or 60% rather than @95%

I've been considering both options. My main reason for buying the XR15 is to compare an LED to my years of using halides (i.e. compare SPS colors and growth from halides vs Radion). So, I'm leaning to avoid the T5's just to eliminate another variable.

I just got off the phone with an Echotech technician with questions about pairing up a G4 with a G5. Here are some things he said:

-If I want the colors to match, he would recommend the G5 PRO. (But, since this light will be eventually used on a larger system where I am tentatively considering all G5XR15-BLUE, I would want the G5 BLUE, and not care too much if the colors don't match perfectly on this temporary cube. Again, the cube will eventually be my SPS Q-tank and I will probably just use the one Gen 4 and set new frags just in the center, up high).
-The PAR is actually a little less with the G5 but that is because it is more evenly dispersed. But still, he would recommend setting the Intensity percentages to the same value on both the G4 and G5.
-The G5 is run from the new Mobius app only. Eventually, prior Gen's will also be able to be run from this app, but not at the present time.
-A separate mounting arm/bracket will be needed
-Running at 100% power does NOT shorten the lifespan of the light. The Radions were built to be used at 100% without any detrimental effects.

I'm pretty sure I will be going with a Gen 5.....

 

[Dr. Jim]

It varies depending on the spectrum, Dana Riddle sent me some studies he had done on 3 par meters and compared them to a Lecor and the results showed that the 210 on sun setting was the closet to the Lecor.

I do believe they were higher though.

I just received this email from an Apogee tech (regarding use of the MG210 with the Gen4XR15 that I am using):

.....Since it looks like the output from your light contains lots of blue photons, readings on your MQ-210 are probably being affected by spectral errors. In our table that I linked to above, the “Kessil Tuna Blue” spectrum looks the most similar to your light’s output. So, I would estimate that in the “Electric” setting your MQ-210 will read about 5% low, and in the “Sun” calibration setting your MQ-210 will read about 12% high.

 

[RCS82]

Its a Hamilton Cayman Sun 12" reflector with 14k Phoenix 250w bulb. I made 2 arms from the back of the stand out of 1 1/2" tube with multiple holes drilled to change the height if wanted.
I really love the set up but the Radion is not needed. I would be just as happy with a pair of Reefbrite or Orphek bars.

 

[jda]

Here is the bottom line and I am not going to get into any arguments... for people who know what they actually are doing (with real experience and not just internet reefers looking at meaningless numbers like Lumens or Lux or cherrypicking parts of arguments that others have posted), you will need to match about 250w of LED to replace 250w of Halides... give or take a little bit like 10%. Tullio Del Aquila has given some great MACNA presentations on why there is no efficiency in light type and why matching watt for watt is necessary - these are on YouTube and easy to find.

I am not talking about somebody who took 3x 400w halides and 4x 110w VHOs off of their softie tank and now can use a trio of 90w LEDs since the 400w was dumb to being with... I mean people who NEED the output that at 250W Halide can bring... you are looking at about the same... maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but in the ballpark.

Use the wattage as a swag and work from there... know that 100w of LED is going to underwhelm you, like you have seen... but a pair of 100w LEDs is getting closer.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Well...I bought the G5 XR15-PRO and put it next to my G4. You will see in the photo the G4 rests a little lower than the G5 using the same mounting arm. (The G4 has a diffuser which adds to the thickness, too).
I am glad I got the PRO instead of the BLUE. I set it for the AB+ setting and raised the Cool white from 24% to 35% and I have what I consider a perfect color! The color from the G4 and G5 appear identical. I have both cranked up to 99% and I am getting nice PAR readings almost everywhere in the tank: (at least 250-300 in most spots). I had to put the lights on the sides because I have a hang-on refugium on the back. I also had to move my fan to the back but I like the way it ended up.

G5 on left; G4 on right in photo.

 

[RCS82]

Looks awesome. Love the GHL cabinet, that's some great gear.
Have to ask, is the puck size on the G5 the same as the G4?

 

[Dr. Jim]

Looks awesome. Love the GHL cabinet, that's some great gear.
Have to ask, is the puck size on the G5 the same as the G4?

No. The LED's are in a rectangular format, about 4.25" x 2.5" rather than the G4's round configuration (diam about 3.5").
Here is a photo of the two lights from my tank, but you can see better pictures here:

Radion G6 – EcoTech Marine

ecotechmarine.com

Every time I look at them I think about what dumb luck I had buying the G4 two weeks before the announcement of the G5! I have about the same luck when trying to "time" the stock market!

 

[RCS82]

Great info and great to see a good side by side comparison. But I'm just not seeing the pros of upgrading from G4s to G5s. Roughly 1 more square inch of LEDs is not an improvement I feel. Lenses and optics are maybe better with the G5s and power output is bumped up a bit I understand but I'm no Radion expert. I just don't see what the hype is. If it were me I would be looking for G4s for the lower price.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Great info and great to see a good side by side comparison. But I'm just not seeing the pros of upgrading from G4s to G5s. Roughly 1 more square inch of LEDs is not an improvement I feel. Lenses and optics are maybe better with the G5s and power output is bumped up a bit I understand but I'm no Radion expert. I just don't see what the hype is. If it were me I would be looking for G4s for the lower price.

Any upgrade in technology is worth it to me. For one thing, a diffuser is no longer needed (which reduces output by 20%), and there are more LED's. That alone is enough reason for me, but I'm sure there is much more technical data available on the Echotech site.

 

[Ferrell]

BRS is coming out with the XR15 light tests on Friday. See what they say about the G5s

 

[FortLivingRoom]

I have a new Red Sea 170 (24" x 20" x 20"H) with a Radion Gen 4 XR15. (This is my first LED tank after many years of halides). My plan is to have only SPS (acros) (and this tank is really an experimental tank being that my house is up for sale and I need to wait before setting up a larger system). I've always thought that the Radions are generally not run at 100%. But I found that the PAR (measured with a Apogee 210) is nowhere near 250-350 (at 100%, using Echotech's AB+ settings with a little extra Cool White) except a couple of inches below the surface. I removed the diffuser from the light and now I can get the desired 250-350 but no deeper than about 12" and not near the perimeters.

For those of you with expertise using the Radions, does this sound about right? (I don't think I am operating the PAR meter incorrectly, but that possibility crossed my mind).

If this is all the PAR I can get from the G4XR15, I am considering selling it and buying the new G5. (I just bought the G4 right before they announced the G5...just my luck!

Thank you for any input.

Did you move on from the G4? I am setting up mine on a RSR170 as well and waiting a th e par meter rental. Wondering what brightness and overall intensities ended up working for you?

 

[Dr. Jim]

Did you move on from the G4? I am setting up mine on a RSR170 as well and waiting a th e par meter rental. Wondering what brightness and overall intensities ended up working for you?

Sorry I'm just seeing your post now. Unfortunately, I don't have good answers for you. I only used the G4 for a short time before selling it. I then had two G5's (1 Blue; 1 Pro) to play around with. But I started having a lot of problems with my tank and after only a short time replaced the LED's with halides that I am more use to. So I didn't use the XR15's long enough to be able to make any recommendation. However I can definitely say you would need two of them for that tank for SPS. I will probably go back to them some day though.
Sorry I can't be much help. Hope yours are doing well.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Sorry I'm just seeing your post now. Unfortunately, I don't have good answers for you. I only used the G4 for a short time before selling it. I then had two G5's (1 Blue; 1 Pro) to play around with. But I started having a lot of problems with my tank and after only a short time replaced the LED's with halides that I am more use to. So I didn't use the XR15's long enough to be able to make any recommendation. However I can definitely say you would need two of them for that tank for SPS. I will probably go back to them some day though.
Sorry I can't be much help. Hope yours are doing well.

Thanks for the response nonetheless. Hopefully the PAR meter is on my doorstep when I get home!