Is a self sustained reef tank possible?

Dam! 4 clowns in a 42gallon?! lol
Get ready to get rid of them sooner than later...

I did forget about this guy, but look up "Glenn DSR". He's done about 4 or 5 water changes in the last 10 years?
Of course he doses the molyb, strontium, and a couple other things that some deem unnecessary.. :)
 
Dam! 4 clowns in a 42gallon?! lol
Get ready to get rid of them sooner than later...

I did forget about this guy, but look up "Glenn DSR". He's done about 4 or 5 water changes in the last 10 years?
Of course he doses the molyb, strontium, and a couple other things that some deem unnecessary.. :)
They are from the same batch.. currently all fine..
 
How long has this tank been set up? Looks fairly new but good none the less. I like the set up with all the tanks in one place. If it was me Id convert the top tank to the reef though lol.
 
How long has this tank been set up? Looks fairly new but good none the less. I like the set up with all the tanks in one place. If it was me Id convert the top tank to the reef though lol.
The reef tank is 6mnths old. Yes, im getting rid of the planted tank, the turtle too will be shifted. Once the planted tanknis gone, ill be ordering a new tank for marine. Gona make a display refugium... Let's see..
 
The reef tank is 6mnths old. Yes, im getting rid of the planted tank, the turtle too will be shifted. Once the planted tanknis gone, ill be ordering a new tank for marine. Gona make a display refugium... Let's see..
Awesome. Big fuges are the fuges.
 
Hard to explain, this is the right side of my "display", the glass divider splits the tank in 2 but there is a 3 inch swim through hole for the fish and shrimps.
Regular macro algae fuge in the sump and my jungle end with lots of fast growing softies. ;)

 
Hard to explain, this is the right side of my "display", the glass divider splits the tank in 2 but there is a 3 inch swim through hole for the fish and shrimps.
Regular macro algae fuge in the sump and my jungle end with lots of fast growing softies. ;)

Can u share ur sump pic?
 
This was a couple of months ago, the mangroves have grown a bit, I will try and get one today.
Both ends of the tank have their own overflows and returns.
Overflows enter into corner weir sections to calm the flow a bit and there are 2 trays of mineral mud in that main section.
Refugium with 2 or 3 macro algaes, 2 more trays of mineral mud and the mangroves. Oh and 2 heaters.
Fuge weirs over into the return section, 2 return pumps.
Large cuc of mostly snails and hermits.
I have never cleaned the sump in 10 months and the first and last sections are clean glass bottoms with coraline algae! ;)
Flow through is about 7000 lph (175o gph?).

 
This was a couple of months ago, the mangroves have grown a bit, I will try and get one today.
Both ends of the tank have their own overflows and returns.
Overflows enter into corner weir sections to calm the flow a bit and there are 2 trays of mineral mud in that main section.
Refugium with 2 or 3 macro algaes, 2 more trays of mineral mud and the mangroves. Oh and 2 heaters.
Fuge weirs over into the return section, 2 return pumps.
Large cuc of mostly snails and hermits.
I have never cleaned the sump in 10 months and the first and last sections are clean glass bottoms with coraline algae! ;)
Flow through is about 7000 lph (175o gph?).


Thats really nice.. do u change the mineral mud? Is it really worth changing? Any downside of not changing? never tried it, so asking
 
Thats really nice.. do u change the mineral mud? Is it really worth changing? Any downside of not changing? never tried it, so asking

I put it in at the start of the year, remember the upgrade is only 10 months old, I will change the first tray out next weekend then another in 3 months etc ...
Last waterchange was about 5 or 6 months ago.
I have tried and failed unfortunately a wild acro and a dainty red dragon.
I can do this so it sort of works!
Never been tested for nitrates and phosphates. ;)

 
I put it in at the start of the year, remember the upgrade is only 10 months old, I will change the first tray out next weekend then another in 3 months etc ...
Last waterchange was about 5 or 6 months ago.
I have tried and failed unfortunately a wild acro and a dainty red dragon.
I can do this so it sort of works!
Never been tested for nitrates and phosphates. ;)

Kool bro.. awsm acro.. a new study says at high temps, corals consume p04..

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/elevated-phosphate-reduces-coral-bleaching
I put it in at the start of the year, remember the upgrade is only 10 months old, I will change the first tray out next weekend then another in 3 months etc ...
Last waterchange was about 5 or 6 months ago.
I have tried and failed unfortunately a wild acro and a dainty red dragon.
I can do this so it sort of works!
Never been tested for nitrates and phosphates. ;)

 
Been in the hobby about 8 years or so, when I planned the new tank it was to run max lazy and manual.
I can see how my corals are and how my algae is doing, medical condition, I do work a full week but spend the rest of my time with my littlereefrockpool.
It has to be possible (I do dose for kh cal and mag) to try and get the system to deal with nutrient export!? ;)
 
to me its evident a self sustained reef tank is not possible. having mechanical decides do the jobs is automation not self sustenance, that implies the system itself doing the recycling

the tank above requires the same work we all do...export must occur, and protein input must occur although it can be staved off quite a while depending on design, so all we are considering is how least someone will be able to maintain their tank. there is no set and go, the ecospheres that live 6-9 years with the opulae shrimp are probably the closes we have but that's not reef, its an invert display. PJ reef jars are probably the closest thing we have for reefing, and no large tanker has replicated that. They are gaining time off dilutions but still have to act on the tank.
 
My neighbour has allowed me for a self sustained tank, lets see, as ill be caughtup with my own tank build and work. My plan is a 60g dt and a 40g sump with only cheato in it and about 80kg liverock. The lights in cheato will stay on for like 18 to 20hrs and the only thing that will be fed in phyto plankton twice a week for 6mnths, no fishes. After that just a pair of mandarins (as he wants them only). Hopefully it works well. Obviously the mandarins will be traing for frozen too. Gona take a while though for this build.
 
I didn't look and check but I think your OP said something like, except dosing for the basics, kh, cal and mag.
I can only speak from that angle and my main failing is forgetting to dose trace minerals.
I accept the limitations of the animals I can keep due to how I run my tank, I lost 2 animals but they were not in as experiments but because I believed I could care for them.
Each to there own I guess.
I don't really have a life due to a medical condition, hardly go out but I do work a normal working week.
I can spend as much time as I like with my tank, outside my working week and do, my lack of input is really to see if I can get AS self sustaining system as I can, mainly nutrient export.
 
Have removed phosguard and carbon last week, currently jus have foam, cheato and purigen. Algae is still decreqsing in dt and coralline picking up.
No water changes.
 
From reading all these posts I think there is a lot of confusion between "Self-sustaining" and "Not A Pain In the Butt". Self-sustaining a reef isn't going to happen because it's a growing environment and it needs to consume things to continue to grow. Sustaining the fish is not that difficult. I've been keeping salt tanks for over 3 decades and reef tanks for close to 3 decades.

My reef tanks have gone for years at a time with the fish fish population only getting live brine maybe twice a year. The rest of the time the fish survived off of what the tank produced. And I wasn't keeping just a fish or two. I'm talking about 100+ fish in 400g tank. And the fish were spawning and happy. I didn't start feeding my reef till I decided to try keeping anthias.

But even today as I feed the display tank. I have a frag tank in which the fish are flourishing without being fed by me. I have a 180g frag tank (8x4x1) The tank is bare botton and just as egg crate and tons of frags. The frag tank is part of my 1100g system. But currently the frag tank has a population of fish that includes a maturing imperator angel, Navarchus angel, Mis-Bar Red sea regal, pair of gold flake angels, pair of platinum clowns, chevron tang, 4 yellow tangs, barienee tang, juvenile sailfin and red mandarin. Now that's a pretty big fish population for a tank with no rock in it. But the fish are doing amazing. Amazing even by my standards of decades of experience. I am so impressed that these fish are fat and healthy with whats they pick off of aggcrate. And with that population in the tank you can still grab just about any frag and find a dense pod population.

My experience is lots and lots of live rock. Provides lots of surface area for filtration and for food growth.

I have a huge and diverse fish population. To deal with all the fish waste I have lots of corals, lots of chaeto, and literal square feet of xenia.

For mechanical filtration I have a 12+ year old Deltec skimmer.

For feeding the fish the system is self-sustaining (excluding the silly anthias). But for the corals it's not self-sustaining, but it's also not overwhelming. It's about making life simple. Currently my system is safe for about 3-4 weeks with zero human interaction. The 3-4 weeks is when I have to add more Kalkwasser to the Kalk reactor. My calcium reactor takes care of my trace elements. I get alerted when I'm out of CO2 or the reactor clogs. My skimmer has a self cleaning neck that I built, and all my RO waste water runs through the skimmer collection cup and then out to the sewer. My skimmer maintenance is down to cleaning the pumps (about every 3 years). My RO system replaces 20-55g of water a day depending on how hot the weather is. When the RO filters are shot I get an email. In the past 20 months I have done 1 water change of 80g.

I'm a litigation consultant, and when I go into trial I can walk away from my tank for a month at a time without any worries. My only tank time is to keep the algae off the front panels so I can check on the tank from the webcams. After a month of ignoring the tank I pull out a 5g bucket of chaeto, I add a couple of cups of Kalk, and I pull out maybe 200-300 heads of xenia. I run an Ultra Reef reactor with about 2 cups of carbon and I change that every couple of months.

That's not alot of time investment for a reef tank. It's not self-sustaining, but it's also not real time consuming.

And does this low maintenance system work.... It works for me... Does it work for the corals? Well I told you about harvesting hundreds of heads of xenia, but the other corals are thriving.

And how about those fish I'm not feeding. This past Tuesday Jake Adams of Reefbuilders was visiting and we watched a pair of Golden Angels initiate spawning behavior.... Golden angels - Super cool. And while we were watching them we spotted a frimandi pseudo chromis swimming with a dangling egg cluster. That was just Tuesday. In the last year we have had spawing bangai cardinals, spawning damsels, spawning red scooter blennies, spawning target mandarins, spawning flame back angels and spawning Bellus angels. I feel confident saying that this fish population is doing well.

But as we all know... Anyone can type a bunch of stuff and hit post and claim anything their imagination can think of.

So take a look and tell me how you think the low-maintenance system is doing

Display tank - www.o2manyfish.com/webcam - and the outside frag tank is at www.o2manyfish,com/fragtank

Keep an eye on the angels, try to find a skinny one :)

Dave B
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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