Is biomedia useful or is it a nutrient trap?

[ReefBeta]

Back when marine pure was introduced, there was a lot of concern over AL. The actual marine pure stuff was fine, the cheap knockoffs from fleabay and amazon were found to knockoffs and leached AL very bad.

I've had marine pure in my tank for about 5 years now. Many ICP tests and never have had elevated AL.

I also do not trust ICP testing. We do not know there testing practices, whether they clean the machine between testing, whether the machine is calibrated between sample, etc, etc. There can be a whole plethora of issues with ICP as @Randy Holmes-Farley has pointed out before.

I once had an ICP come back that was no where near where I tested my tank at. Contacted the manufacturer, they dug into it, and found they mislabled many samples and sent out the wrong results to the wrong people. Had I acted on those results, I probably wouldn't still be in the hobby. So take every ICP test with a grain of salt(pun intended). ICP to me is a another testing tool, not an absolute.

I was using marine pure block in previous build for years without problem too, so I did not think about it at all. But this time I had unexplained difficulties in keeping some corals healthy in both of my tanks, until I found out the aluminum problem. After removed all marine pure and brightwell blocks, the troubled corals are finally stabilized and start to recover. Will all the factors line up so nicely by coincidence to wrong marinepure blocks? Maybe. But I'm not taking chance on them anymore. Also why I kept them in a bucket running so that I can test again later.

 

[RalphTech]

A media bag came with my EVO 13 aio and it's nestled in the foam. I don't know what it does but rinse it & the carbon in tank water during the weekly change. Used chemi pure instead of the charcoal for a month but think it's overkill for a 13G with weekly wc.

 

[Brady4000]

To answer the question - I do not use any of these products (have not seen the need) - but I don't think they are 'nitrate traps' either. The 'detritus' is going to go somewhere with or without the matrix. I would think a good pre-filter before the area those would be in - would solve any detritus problem.

It was my impression that QT tanks shouldn't use rock from a display tank or sump (it kind if defeats the purpose of QT - if you mix the 2 tanks (just incase there could be a pathogen in your tank) - and also It was my impression that this type of media/rock can also ad/absorb medications - and make them less effective if you're using medication in QT

I could very well be wrong, in the way I do it, but I use the media bag to prevent any ammonia. It’s like a instant cycle of live rock you don’t mind tossing out and it’s less stress off the fish. Then I dose with copper.

Like I said, I trash the media bag and the media after QT. I also empty the tank, I don’t buy enough fish to keep a QT tank running forever.

So I don’t see how this is mixing my QT and DT? Are your saying I might have ich or something in my DT and I am giving it to the new incoming fish in QT? Kinda backwards no?

Will live rock eat up the copper in the water? Something new to look up every day lol...

Edit: Also I am talking about a QT not a hospital tank. I got a bare tank for that.

 

[MnFish1]

I could very well be wrong, in the way I do it, but I use the media bag to prevent any ammonia. It’s like a instant cycle of live rock you don’t mind tossing out and it’s less stress off the fish. Then I dose with copper.

Like I said, I trash the media bag and the media after QT. I also empty the tank, I don’t buy enough fish to keep a QT tank running forever.

So I don’t see how this is mixing my QT and DT? Are your saying I might have ich or something in my DT and I am giving it to the new incoming fish in QT? Kinda backwards no?

Will live rock eat up the copper in the water? Something new to look up every day lol...

Edit: Also I am talking about a QT not a hospital tank. I got a bare tank for that.

1. yes - I was talking about 'normally' - its frowned upon to mix water from a display into a QT tank (i.e. backwards transmission - whether its bacteria, or CI, or whatever) - Its just not a 'good practice' - That said - I've heard that lots of people do it. But 'strictly' its not the best practice (i.e. I'm not criticizing you - just saying what the standard is)
2. Good that you have a separate hospital tank - for medications (that IS the standard - i.e. with no rock.
3. The way I would do it is using fresh media of some sort - in a HOB filter and add bottled bacteria - it will work just as well - with likely no risk (IMHO).

The reason I mentioned it - is that at one point - I did something like this - I had bought new fish - and put them in a separate tank - but added some sand from the DT. No big deal right? - well one of the fish in my DT had a fin-rot (I think) - problem. Within a day or 2 all of the new fish showed the same problem - eventually - all had blood streaks in their fins the fish in the DT - and the fish in the QT tank - which all required treatment with antibiotics. (and all survived)

 

[FrancineJ]

I think it certainly can be useful... for example I keep a small bag in my Sump so I don’t have to keep a hospital tank up and running all the time... if I need one (god forbid!) I just pull out the bag of biomedia and pop it into my empty hospital tank and fill it up... it’s much easier then keeping one running all the time... I personally wouldn't use a large bag say for the bulk of my bacteria as that’s what the rock is for but it certainly has its place... I can’t believe how many reefers I have spoken to that had not thought about doing this instead of rushing to set up a hospital tank or having to wait or borrow media from someone else etc....

just remember to give it a quick rinse every couple water changes

 

[Steve Fast]

Here is an interesting product that overcomes many of the shortfalls in submerged biomedia:

Bio Reactor | Bashsea

The ultimate maintenance free biological filter.

bashsea.com

Pentair sells a filter for the aquaculture industry that the smallest version can handle 1.5-3 lbs of food daily:

sweetwater Low-Space Bioreactor Filter

There are many types of biofilters used in aquaculture, including trickling, submerged, rotating biological contactors (RBCs) and fluidized beds.

pentairaes.com

What I like about these systems is that the media does not get gunked up like everything else I've tried including rock. Systems similar to these are used in everything from aquaculture to waster water treatment. Further they are fairly easy and inexpensive to build.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[threebuoys]

Here is an interesting product that overcomes many of the shortfalls in submerged biomedia:

Bio Reactor | Bashsea

The ultimate maintenance free biological filter.

bashsea.com

Pentair sells a filter for the aquaculture industry that the smallest version can handle 1.5-3 lbs of food daily:

sweetwater Low-Space Bioreactor Filter

There are many types of biofilters used in aquaculture, including trickling, submerged, rotating biological contactors (RBCs) and fluidized beds.

pentairaes.com

What I like about these systems is that the media does not get gunked up like everything else I've tried including rock. Systems similar to these are used in everything from aquaculture to waster water treatment. Further they are fairly easy and inexpensive to build.

Just my 2 cents...

Looks like fluidized K1 beds. As you indicated, easy to build in a DIY sump or canister.

 

[Ravsta]

Hey there, where exactly in your sump do you place the mesh bag with bio balls? How many...approximately? What size is your tank?
I’d like to keep Nitrates <5ppm, but struggle to keep them less than 10ppm. I have a 50 gallon tank. Bare bottom with a fair amount of live rock. 2 clowns and a damsel, they get Mysis and pellets (my CF are old and blind). I like to direct feed my corals reef roids and Mysis and my tank runs nutrient rich. It flourishes nicely...but, I worry about Nitrates all the time. I put a bio-media lava rock in there right after my filter sock. I have no idea if it helped. Mostly, it disintegrated and created a mess in my sump so I took it out after a couple of months.

I place the bio-balls in the return pump section of my sump. My sump is setup in this order -

Filter Sock Section > Skimmer Section > Heater and bio-balls section >Return Pump section.

The section the bio-balls sit in is very low flow with zero turbulence which I believe is perfect for denitrifying bacteria.

I purchased the 2 KG box and used less than half of the bio-balls. This product can be a victim of it's own success, it certainly is getting that way in my tank because I have to feed heavily to keep my nitrates up.

For a 50 gallon I would say you need less than 1KG.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

So, I've got siporax and matrix in my sump. Lately, I've been wondering how much good it's doing. I wonder if it's really helping, or is it just a place for detritus to gather. Thoughts?

When i started my 20 long no sump I used a tidal 75 hob filter loaded with matrix. I ran it this way for 8 months give or take. My nitrates seem to hover around 5 to 10 ppm. I use to clean it in my waste water to shake free all the debris and stuff. I've taken it out and just let my powerhead use the rock and my nitrates have been consistently low. I only need to do a water change about every 3 or 4 weeks of 5 gallons and my nitrates stay 5 or less.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

So, I've got siporax and matrix in my sump. Lately, I've been wondering how much good it's doing. I wonder if it's really helping, or is it just a place for detritus to gather. Thoughts?

When i started my 20 long no sump I used a tidal 75 hob filter loaded with matrix. I ran it this way for 8 months give or take. My nitrates seem to hover around 5 to 10 ppm. I use to clean it in my waste water to shake free all the debris and stuff. I've taken it out and just let my powerhead use the rock and my nitrates have been consistently low. I only need to do a water change about every 3 or 4 weeks of 5 gallons and my nitrates stay 5 or less.

I think it was a good idea to run it at the start. Gave bacteria an abundance of places to take off. Plus it has amazing surface area and very porous. So if you wanna cut back on rock in the tank for a minimalist look then I'd definitely use it. Ibe got about 16 pounds or maybe more of rock so it seems to be doing its job.

 

[threebuoys]

I think it was a good idea to run it at the start. Gave bacteria an abundance of places to take off. Plus it has amazing surface area and very porous. So if you wanna cut back on rock in the tank for a minimalist look then I'd definitely use it. Ibe got about 16 pounds or maybe more of rock so it seems to be doing its job.

If you want to use commercial bio-media, 30 ppi aquarium foam has 6 times the effective surface area per cubic foot as matrix, and cheaper too. I can provide a link if you're interested in the scientific study that confirms this.

 

[ca1ore]

Too lazy to read though the entire thing, so if somebody already made these points, then sorry for being redundant .....

Any mechanical media will trap detritus, whether it becomes a 'nutrient trap' is less clear. I know lots of people SAY it does, but few have actual data and are just parroting what they've heard. I mostly dismiss all that. Do you have a nutrient problem is the first question., or are you having to employ herculean efforts to keep them in check? If the answer to either/both is no, then its really moot. The second question is why are you using supplemental bio-media in the first place? I keep a couple of bags of ceramic rings in my sump, not because I need the extra media, but because I want to be able to quick cycle my QT tanks. I tend to go on the low side of rock in the display because I hate a cluttered tank. Even so, with heavy fish stocking I have never had any signs of an ammonia problem; leading me to conclude that appropriate live rock has an enormous capacity to host the bio-filter and renders any artificial supplements in the sump also moot.

 

[HaveFishWillTravel]

Try SeaChem denitrate. For a 50 gallon, do 2 liters in a media rector but the key here, is to regulate the flow at 50 gal/hr or less, to facilitate the growth of nitrate-consuming anaerobic bacteria. Not necessary to seed it but better to do so....look at Bacter Gen MD

I have tried Seachem de*nitrate in one of my freshwater tanks using a very low flow pump without much success. I was really hoping it was going to work and I kept it going for several months, but didn’t see a big difference. Maybe I’ll have better luck in my saltwater tank.

 

[Adamantium]

Personally, I noticed a HUGE difference in nutrient levels and stability after adding a Brightwell NO3 Xport biobrick to my 40 breeder. I went from NO3 hovering between 10 and 20 PPM to stable at 2-3 PPM. PO4 also went down and is stable at around .03 PPM.

Very happy with it.

Per BRS instructions, I soaked it in Microbacter 7 for 24 hours before adding it.

 

[BOWHUNTER4250]

I run Siporax , Marine pure blocks and Marine Pure bio balls all in a compartment of my sump that all of my water has to flow past this before returning to my tank ... I have a bare bottom DD300 with a basement sump that is another 125 -150 gallons of water
Other than the live rock that is in the display that is all i run ... I have to say the Siporax and Marine pure products are doing an excellent job at keeping my No3 and Po4 down .... i dont run Gfo and i dont run Carbon or a fuge i have over 100 sticks growing , some colonys ( maybe 20 bigger than baseballs ) the rest i would say are not quite frags but not colonies yet ...with about 15-20 fish . I also add Dr. Tims Eco - Balance once a week to help keep the " Good Bacteria " populating

 

[beginner_reefer]

I use massive amounts of Matrix in place of live rock. It's always in mesh bags or mesh trays that are easily removed and rinsed in tank water. Once well established (3-4 months average) my tanks will support massive swings in bioload with zero ammonia problems. I love Matrix!

Now that's not to say that all that ammonia doesn't eventually wind up as all that nitrate, because it does. But I have separate and some different system features for processing nitrates.

Newbie here. When you say rinse in tank water, do you just pull some out of your tank and rinse them?

 

[MnFish1]

Newbie here. When you say rinse in tank water, do you just pull some out of your tank and rinse them?

I do not think there is any reason to rinse in 'tank water'.... You can easily rinse them (fairly quickly) under the tap - and all is fine

 

[DaddyFish]

Newbie here. When you say rinse in tank water, do you just pull some out of your tank and rinse them?

I mean tank water, pre-mixed saltwater, or as last choice RO water or dechlorinated tap water because...

A. That biomedia is home to the majority of your beneficial bacteria. Chlorine will kill it, not all of it, but it can certainly make a big dent in the population.
B. Not all saltwater bacteria can survive the sudden shift of specific gravity from 1.024-1.000 in 10-seconds. So again, you are killing off what you work so hard to propagate and keep.

Grab a 1-gallon bucket of tank water or from your mixing tank and use that for a quick wash of the biomedia.

 

[MnFish1]

I mean tank water, pre-mixed saltwater, or as last choice RO water or dechlorinated tap water because...

A. That biomedia is home to the majority of your beneficial bacteria. Chlorine will kill it, not all of it, but it can certainly make a big dent in the population.
B. Not all saltwater bacteria can survive the sudden shift of specific gravity from 1.024-1.000 in 10-seconds. So again, you are killing off what you work so hard to propagate and keep.

Grab a 1-gallon bucket of tank water or from your mixing tank and use that for a quick wash of the biomedia.

I just was thinking that most people would only wash a portion of their filter media at one time - and that - even using chlorinated water - for very short periods of time - will get rid of the 'gunk' on the outside - while not harming the bacteria.... Which require a certain contact time.

 

[beginner_reefer]

I mean tank water, pre-mixed saltwater, or as last choice RO water or dechlorinated tap water because...

A. That biomedia is home to the majority of your beneficial bacteria. Chlorine will kill it, not all of it, but it can certainly make a big dent in the population.
B. Not all saltwater bacteria can survive the sudden shift of specific gravity from 1.024-1.000 in 10-seconds. So again, you are killing off what you work so hard to propagate and keep.

Grab a 1-gallon bucket of tank water or from your mixing tank and use that for a quick wash of the biomedia.

Thank you for clarifying!