Is copper necessary?

JMM744 · Dec 25, 2016

I have a sail fin tang, yellow tang, two clowns and a cleaner wrasse in a qt tank. All but the sail fin have been treated with cuprimine twice. Sail fin went in a week ago. They all came from hobbyists tanks. All but the sail fin have been in qt tank for 6-7 weeks. My plan is to dose cuprimine again for the sail fin. Everyone is health and eating out of hand. Clowns are bullies but the others are quick enough to avoid them. Is it really necessary to dose copper for these guys or can they be released into thier intended tank.? The tank is a 70 reef that has been fallow for 4 months except for additions of corals, most of which have been dipped. Just wondering out loud.
Thank you for your thoughts,
Jim

Maritimer · Dec 25, 2016

You can go with an observation-only quarantine, but it should go the full 30 days (introducing the sailfin to QT technically restarts the QT clock for any other fish that's in there with it...). Keep in mind that ich can be harbored in a fish's gills without the fish ever showing outward symptoms. (I should think that would be fairly rare for tangs, they catch ich pretty easily . . . but I'm not a pro.)

If it was my display at risk, I'd probably be ramping up the copper again . . .

~Bruce

4FordFamily · Dec 25, 2016

Unfortunately zebrasoma that have been in the hobby awhile build a strong resistance to ich and other parasites but will act as great carriers. Copper for full 30 days is what I would do.

Humblefish · Dec 25, 2016

^^ Agree with above. Whenever you add a new fish to a QT, it resets the clock FOR EVERY FISH in that QT.

JMM744 · Dec 26, 2016

Ok, I am convinced. Start cuprimine tomorrow and once done will do copper for 30 days. Thank you all kiddy for your advice and recommendations.

JMM744 · Dec 26, 2016

Sorry, had it wrong. Prozipro is first then copper.

4FordFamily · Dec 26, 2016

Good choice

JMM744 · Dec 26, 2016

Started prozipro today in both qt tanks. Thank you all for your help in making this decision. Happy New Years to all.

um02122 · Dec 27, 2016

I think the full quarantine period is SIX weeks, to allow for a full ich cycle if present on a fish.

Treating with copper where there is no sign of disease is poor practice, as the copper is toxic, even the form contained in Cupramine.

You quarantine to give a chance for a parasite to cause a superinfection - small volume, better chances for the parasite.

On the other side, treating for worms and flukes with Praziquantel is a good idea, too many fish come in the hobby infested.

melypr1985 · Dec 27, 2016

um02122 said:
I think the full quarantine period is SIX weeks, to allow for a full ich cycle if present on a fish.

Treating with copper where there is no sign of disease is poor practice, as the copper is toxic, even the form contained in Cupramine.

You quarantine to give a chance for a parasite to cause a superinfection - small volume, better chances for the parasite.

On the other side, treating for worms and flukes with Praziquantel is a good idea, too many fish come in the hobby infested.

Ick is just as prevalent, if not more than flukes is. Treating every fish or coral as if it's carrying ick is smart. Velvet has gained quite a bit of steam as well and is only treated with copper or CP. Of course, if you don't like copper, TTM will treat for ick and can be combined with Prazi for flukes. This will treat ick very effectively and without using copper.

Humblefish · Dec 27, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Ick is just as prevalent, if not more than flukes is. Treating every fish or coral as if it's carrying ick is smart. Velvet has gained quite a bit of steam as well and is only treated with copper or CP. Of course, if you don't like copper, TTM will treat for ick and can be combined with Prazi for flukes. This will treat ick very effectively and without using copper.

^^ Agreed; in a perfect world every disease shows itself in QT, so you don't have to needlessly expose fish to harsh chemicals (medications). However IME, two diseases (ich & flukes) can remain hidden unless you spend LOTS of time in front of the QT watching for key behavioral symptoms: head twitching, scratching on rocks & sand, flashing, heavy breathing. With velvet you may also notice reclusive behavior and the fish swimming into the flow of a powerhead. Any fish that refuses to eat also raises a red flag; although that is not always disease related.

Unfortunately, most people are too busy nowadays to spend even 10-15 minutes in front of a QT. Which is why prophylactic treatment for ich & flukes has become a necessary evil.

JMM744 · Dec 27, 2016

Just a follow up, I observe the fish for extended periods every couple days. The sail fin is a newly placed fish as stated above. After feeding the fish yesterday I noticed the cleaner wrasse doing his usual spastic swimming but after eating he/ she started to swin over against the amonia alert badge and side swipe it several times. Never seen this before but reminded me of a fish doing the same against rock so I am certainly alert to a problem and having already started prozipro will go right to copper once that is done or sooner if I see any other unusual activity or behavior . Thanks again for all the discussion and recommendations. It is most appreciated.
Jim

melypr1985 · Dec 27, 2016

JMM744 said:
he/ she started to swin over against the amonia alert badge and side swipe it several times.

Definitely a red flag. Good plan.

um02122 · Dec 27, 2016

Must be a job defect, as a doctor I hate treating infectious diseases "prophylactically".

I might be blessed with a good fish source, as TMC UK has nice treatment facilities and good practices re: livestock. http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/tmcpropc.htm

In all fairness, the QT tank is setup in front of my couch where I'm spending my free time in the evenings; also my wife and daughter keep an hawk eye over the fish and signal even a missing scale.