!!!!!! Is failure not an option but inevitable??????

[120reefkeeper]

 

[Donovan Joannes]

I think most failures come from inexperience. And being this hobby is so complex, there's no easy way of remedying that. It just takes time, patience and a proper mindset.

If you ask me, all this new equipment and multitude of products just complicates things even further. If you're a noob, best to learn "old school" and then dabble with the toys once you have a firm understanding of the basics.

I am on the same boat as you. Cheers

 

[Labridaedicted]

I always say anyone who hasn't had a tank crash just hasn't been in the hobby long enough. Alot of what we learn, we learn through mistakes. You know, the "Well.... won't do that again" moments. I feel like no matter how meticulous you are, sometimes things just go wrong (equipment failure, power outages, moves, drunk friends, vengeful exes, etc...)

 

[120reefkeeper]

I always say anyone who hasn't had a tank crash just hasn't been in the hobby long enough. Alot of what we learn, we learn through mistakes. You know, the "Well.... won't do that again" moments. I feel like no matter how meticulous you are, sometimes things just go wrong (equipment failure, power outages, moves, drunk friends, vengeful exes, etc...)

Unfortunately it does happen

This is where the experience thing comes in. Good or bad we all continue to learn lol

 

[ws6kid]

I think most failures come from inexperience. And being this hobby is so complex, there's no easy way of remedying that. It just takes time, patience and a proper mindset.

If you ask me, all this new equipment and multitude of products just complicates things even further. If you're a noob, best to learn "old school" and then dabble with the toys once you have a firm understanding of the basics.

I think the vast amount of equipment and automation causes lots of us to feel safe. A feeling of safety leads to being complacent. It happens everywhere. Look at most carpenters...less than 5 years in most still have fingers because they treat the tools with respect and almost have fear about them. After a number of years, you are so comfortable with them that you make a mistake and lose a finger. It is the comfortable feeling that leads to the accident.

One thing I learned from the Zeovit system that was so important is that the best thing you can do is spend 5 minutes a day with your tank. Look at the fish and coral. Really look at them. Learn what they look like when happy or when they need something. Notice small changes and attribute those changes to changes in your husbandry habits or lack thereof. Beware of becoming complacent.

 

[Sm51498]

I think that seeing these super complex, beautiful builds that get so much attention actually distracts people new to the hobby, probably drives failure and people quitting. They feel like they need to replicate these systems and in doing so I think miss out on the fundamentals.

It might be a bit controversial but I recommend first keeping a nano tank and doing it as simply as possible. Happily this also correlates to being relatively cheap as well. I think the ideal is an AIO 20 long,use the filtration section pump at one end for circulation and a prop pump at the other. Then you need a quality heater, simple timer, tight fitting lid to reduce evaporation, 2 or 4 bulb 24" t-5 fixture and that is it for the tank. This setup teaches a new reefer important lessons without getting into unnecessary complications. You learn how to mix salt, do regular water changes and test your water quality. Using the filtration section you can learn about the use of filter floss, GAC and GFO but none of those things are needed to start. you can learn about food and nutrient control. This gives a solid foundation and even room to experiment. you can learn about light spectrum by experimenting with changing bulbs but without getting into the massive complication of LEDs. you can learn about kalkwasser (what I recommend) and 2 part as you grow and need to start dosing, first by hand and then adding a doser later if they want. a 4 bulb T5 fixture allows you to keep anything, you can start with zoas and mushrooms and move all the way up to SPS if you want. A HOB skimmer can be added if desired at a later date. You don't have to learn plumbing, stand construction, acrylic fabrication, wiring or any of those things.

At any rate, this relates to the thread because it allows a new reefer to fail, make mistakes and do it quickly but it also keeps the cost of failure low thus the cost of learning low and you can easily reset or deep clean the whole thing and start over having learned a valuable lesson. All the gadgets we have can be very useful but they can also be points of failure and unnecessary complications that damage the chance of success without teaching any useful lessons about reefing directly.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Back when I started this, there was little information available. A few outdated books, a magazine article by Julian Sprung every month. The only way we knew ANYTHING was from experience, which nearly always meant a crisis/disaster survived or averted. I had the great fortune of being the guy at the LFS (the one that some people drove a couple hundred miles to come to) and they all asked me questions, or told me about their discoveries/disasters, and I was the guy that either had to help them, or they wouldn't come back. I had the excellent fortune of having a couple of mentors at the store who were really on their game about reef keeping, and 98% of everything I learned there, is still true today.

There is no substitute for time or experience in reef keeping. Knowledge from the internet is one thing, correct application of your learning in a stressful moment can often be the difference between disaster and success.

When people see the tank of the month, or these brilliantly spectacular systems, they DON'T see all the struggle and failure that the aquarist has perservered through to achieve that.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I think one of the HARDEST things to learn in this hobby and in life is that sometimes the best course of action is to do NOTHING.

 

[Nano sapiens]

A system failure is likely at some point (nothing lasts forever, although Paulb might disagreee with his 45+ year old tank), but whether the system survives or crashes completely often depends on how well the aquarist is prepared for it and also how healthy/robust the inhabitants are.

My take is that simple systems have less failure points and in the long run are more likely to endure. Providing for the corals' basic needs, avoiding disruptive changes and an effective, consistent maintenance routine can go a long way towards reef tank longevity.

 

[luis carreiro]

hello, have been a stalker on R2R for about 1 year. I as of yet do not have a reef tank, but its only a matter of time. Learning as much as possible from you all. It seems to me that having redundancy at possible points of failure would be critical in preventing a total system failure/severe stress. Can anyone list/speak to those areas and how we can create redundant systems to minimize the risk. Thanks in advance

 

[ThunderGoose]

Define failure. Do you mean you loose a few corals or shrimp or fish or do you mean everything in the tank dies? To me loosing a few organisms seems inevitable. Some things will go wrong. You'll buy something on impulse that doesn't work for your tank. These types of failures don't both me. I think these are inevitable and I prefer not to think of them as failure.

Loosing the whole tank? That's real failure and I really, really hope THAT's not inevitable!

 

[Labridaedicted]

Define failure. Do you mean you loose a few corals or shrimp or fish or do you mean everything in the tank dies? To me loosing a few organisms seems inevitable. Some things will go wrong. You'll buy something on impulse that doesn't work for your tank. These types of failures don't both me. I think these are inevitable and I prefer not to think of them as failure.

Loosing the whole tank? That's real failure and I really, really hope THAT's not inevitable!

I lost most of my livestock during a move.... that was my one big crash that made me take a break from the hobby. Otherwise, it typically is just one or two things here or there.

I think it all depends on how much time you spend with your tank and how little you tinker with it. The more you change on an established system, the more likely you are to have an issue. We've pretty much all gotten that one fish that is "reef safe with caution", only to have it be completely and totally not reef safe, haha.

 

[luke33]

I have thought about this to many hours over the years. Its the reason I love and hate this hobby. In the end yes, I believe failure is going to happen. Why do I believe this? Well I look beyond a tank crash or equipment failure, power outage....etc. But even if I get to that end game where I am done with the hobby and selling everything off, the next person may lose a few fish, coral...etc, then they pass it on, and so on and so on. In the end the fish and corals parish, so yea, this is why I believe the end is always failure.

 

[Sm51498]

hello, have been a stalker on R2R for about 1 year. I as of yet do not have a reef tank, but its only a matter of time. Learning as much as possible from you all. It seems to me that having redundancy at possible points of failure would be critical in preventing a total system failure/severe stress. Can anyone list/speak to those areas and how we can create redundant systems to minimize the risk. Thanks in advance

You are partially right, redundancy is a really good thing to have. Eliminating the point of failure is even better, especially in the beginning. That is why I advocate the simpler the better. AIO instead of a sump, a glass top instead of an ATO, water changes instead of a skimmer.

Baseline, you need to know the common points of failure. Heaters are pretty much #1. a separate heater controller is nearly a must, always use quality heaters and preferably use 2 lower wattage units over 1 high watt unit. ATOs are super common points of failure. They all sort of suck. getting one with multiple float switches helps. even better is get a tight fitting lid to start and just top up by hand. lower failure rate. After that, start thinking about things that will kill your tank fastest. A long power outage tops the list. you need to be able to keep the water at a good temperature and oxygenated at a minimum. Next is you. Dosing too much or of the wrong thing, not doing water changes, topping up with saltwater instead of fresh, your salinity incorrectly managed, NOT BEING PATIENT ENOUGH. Manage yourself. After that, your AC or furnace going out. some things might just have to be accepted risk but this is why I recommend minimizing the initial monetary commitment. Note it will still be expensive but if you have 1000 dollars in a small tank vs 5-10k in a big one I know which I could afford to replace more easily and I know if I had 5-10k in I wouldn't accept as much risk as a 1k cost.

 

[luis carreiro]

Thanks @Sm51498. It seems that creating a list/summary of points of failure, keeping it simple techniques, most common mistakes/accidents and recommendations/solutions would be great for us beginners. Don't know if this is already available on R2R.

 

[Alfrareef]

No matter what you do, crash shall happens. And the main reason it's YOU.
The goal should be to be aware for bad thing start and react accordingly. (Which is different from reacting harder)
As per the rest most of us share knowledge taking our own experience which is influenced by our tank size, everything that's inside and the equipment.
As someone as already said, some tank only appear when they are at pristine conditions, also some of the most active are using material supplied by the vendors and are using it not long enough for serious conclusions.
For me the most important is to set the correct filter over what I read and taking time talking in person with other reefers preferably those old ones.

Edited: as for the beginners list I recall the last newbie I've help that after telling what not to do, the guy has gone thru all the classic mistakes... the back siphon after return pump shutdown and ATO, filling ATO with SW, lights falling on water, even the adjusting corals/live rock before going to bed... it took him until 4AM to repair all the damages he has done.
But, since I've also learned by falling I'll keep supporting.

 

[AlexG]

I think that planning for failures or understanding that failures can and will happen is one of the biggest downfalls of many tanks. The reality is that we must rely on equipment, power, test kits, experience, and the experience of others to maintain an aquarium of any kind. Accepting that there can be failures can lead to some changes in the thought process behind designing and maintaining an aquarium. Watching a tank with your eyes is important and I agree with other comments that there are times where people stop trusting their eyes an rely on other means to determine if the tank is healthy which can be a major source of failures.

Ask yourself the questions:

• What do I do if the power fails? Do I have a backup plan in place? Can that backup plan be implemented by anyone other than yourself?
• If a test shows a reading that does not make sense or way off with no visual signs of distress will I follow the test kit results or complete another test with the same kit or a different kit as precaution?
  
• If an aquarium system has a single point of failure is there a redundant backup system in place for that point of failure? Can anyone implement the backup system to keep the tanks running?
  
• What other layers of redundancy on equipment are present on all of the systems on the tank?
• Do I have to dose chemicals to eliminate pests? Are there natural predators that can be used that will not cause additional harm to the aquarium inhabitants?
  
• Do I have to dose chemicals to modify water parameters? Can a natural biological process be used to accomplish that same goal?
  
• Do I have the financial means and time required to properly maintain the aquarium system?

I think that the answers to these questions can help to determine the chance of failure that can be faced by an aquarist. I am sure there are many more questions to ask and I know my current system build is addressing the answers to these questions to minimize the risk of failure I will face when the tanks get up and running. I will also add that no matter what systems get put in place there is always some risk of failure but mitigating some risks can definitely benefit by reducing the risk of failure.

 

[greenhorn reefer]

I am still new but I can put up a list of things that I have learned/used to help stave off a failure (for now).

1. Patience- don't rush into a build, purchase, treatment or rescue.
2. Do what your tank wants, not what you want- don't buy the fish/coral/anemone you want, buy the fish that works for your tank.
3. Set aside the time- don't do anything if it's rushed. Pick a date/time to tinker or set up equipment, dose, monitor, acclimate and so on. These things all require time and if you're not invested, it will show.
4. Chemistry- know what chemistry your water is at all times. If you dose manually , start small, record the effect, make adjustments, test often.
5. Don't dabble in equipment that you are not ready for- don't know how to plumb an ATO? Then maybe you shouldn't. Not saying you can't have an ATO but maybe something more simple. I use a gravity fed ATO. More work but less risk.
6. Pay close attention- if you don't have a good memory keep a journal. It will help you figure out what is happening by identifying actions that lead you there. Example; coral bleaching- did you touch the light setting, dose, add livestock? Being aware and keeping track go hand in hand.
7. Quarantine(debatable)- I prefer it but it is optional.
8.Alert system- $200 piece of mind (again, optional but I prefer one)
9. Listen- take the information with a grain of salt but most experienced reefers know how to avoid mistakes. Plus, a fellow reefer will honestly tell you a blue hippo tang is too small for you 60 gallon because he has no investment in seeing you buy the fish. Others may claim it's possible but results are anecdotal and sometimes lucky, stick with the honest answers.

Anyone else can add to this or deduct but I feel it is a good start to keeping a long lasting system.

A generator is handy too, just make sure it starts when you need it.

 

[Alfrareef]

Great set of questions AlexG.
If you allow me I would just adjust the last question text for Do I understand and have the financial means and time... seen to many people throw lots money into a reef system only for after 12 months quitting due to lack of time and money.

 

[greenhorn reefer]

Great set of questions AlexG.
If you allow me I would just adjust the last question text for Do I understand and have the financial means and time... seen to many people throw lots money into a reef system only for after 12 months quitting due to lack of time and money.

9. Financial ability(debatable)- Sure that works. Not to say you can't have a successful tank on a budget but that is if you budget. If you can't afford the time or finances for a 250 gallon, yeah I can see that being bad.

10. Regular water changes/maintenance- environments don't take breaks. Your tank is consuming/producing nutrients at all times and you are the only means to take care of them.