Is Frogspawn a dead duck?

[NS Mike D]

Which isn't optimal for many LPS. Euhphalia optimally should have a PAR of 150. So if they are at the bottom of a 20" deep tank they will be getting less than 100 PAR

the op's frogspawn was not at the bottom of the tank. agree about 150 but look where he had his corals and i believe you'd have to agree that our numbers confirm that the lights were sufficient

additionally, it's irresponsible to suggest adding a super-powerful LED to a tank without a manufacturer PAR mapping or readings you have taken with a PAR meter and the LEDs wavelengths. At 6" he should be at 222 PAR, cranking up more lights could easily burn out his corals on the shelves.

PS on the acclimation issue, my two frogspawn were itsy bitsy pieces, may 2 - 3 polyps, both were started on the sand bed (<50 PAR) and grew to golf ball size before I moved them up. I'm not an advocate of these lights, but at $135, I think it's worth noting their actual par mappings, albeit from Fluval, and coral needs.

 

[thaitopher]

the op's frogspawn was not at the bottom of the tank. agree about 150 but look where he had his corals and i believe you'd have to agree that our numbers confirm that the lights were sufficient

additionally, it's irresponsible to suggest adding a super-powerful LED to a tank without a manufacturer PAR mapping or readings you have taken with a PAR meter and the LEDs wavelengths. At 6" he should be at 222 PAR, cranking up more lights could easily burn out his corals on the shelves.

PS on the acclimation issue, my two frogspawn were itsy bitsy pieces, may 2 - 3 polyps, both were started on the sand bed (<50 PAR) and grew to golf ball size before I moved them up. I'm not an advocate of these lights, but at $135, I think it's worth noting their actual par mappings, albeit from Fluval, and coral needs.

Not irresponsible at all to use a light from a manufacturer without a PAR table. Many reefers do it. All you have to do is to start low and then slowly ramp up the lighting.

 

[NS Mike D]

Not irresponsible at all to use a light from a manufacturer without a PAR table. Many reefers do it. All you have to do is to start low and then slowly ramp up the lighting.

keep in mind it was you who said his lights were insufficient when the coral was in an acceptable range and then implied to add more light.

i take back irresponsible and apologize that it was offending. I will disagree with the logic stating a coral will do best at a specific PAR and then implying a strategy of winging it, especially when said coral was likely in an acceptable PAR range.

 

[thaitopher]

totally uncalled for; keep in mind it was you who said his lights were insufficient when the coral was in an acceptable range and then implied to add more light.

i take back irresponsible and apologize that you were offended. I will disagree with the logic stating a coral will do best at a specific PAR and then implying a strategy of winging it.

I agree that the light was sufficient for where the frogspawn was placed. I would also agree that frogspawn can live with PAR around 50. My light recommendation was mainly so that he could see that there are less expensive options than buying a super expensive LED. If he upgrades his lighting he would be much more flexible with his placement options. I had my frogspawn on a sandbed at 20" with that same light, it just wasn't optimal. Ever since purchasing the cheap Chinese lights I have noticed it looking much better, not bloating as much, etc...

 

[Jeff Hall]

Euphalia dont bother each other. You can put torch, frogspawn and hammers all together.

IME this is not true. Most hammers and frogspawn will be fine near each other but torches will sting the ish out of anything near them including hammers and frog spawn,

 

[thaitopher]

IME this is not true. Most hammers and frogspawn will be fine near each other but torches will sting the ish out of anything near them including hammers and frog spawn,

That statement is probably wrong in general. I guess my experience in having them together is probably the exception.

 

[NS Mike D]

I agree that the light was sufficient for where the frogspawn was placed. I would also agree that frogspawn can live with PAR around 50. My light recommendation was mainly so that he could see that there are less expensive options than buying a super expensive LED. If he upgrades his lighting he would be much more flexible with his placement options. I had my frogspawn on a sandbed at 20" with that same light, it just wasn't optimal. Ever since purchasing the cheap Chinese lights I have noticed it looking much better, not bloating as much, etc...

I 100% agree with this. i have cheap chinese LEDs cranking cheato growth in my sump, and since adding more demanding corals to my tank I took my original fluval marine and reef out of retirement and added them to my 2.0 wifi to give a mid-day boost and more coverage. If I didn't have other demands for my money, I'd get two kessils, but for under $200, hard to ignore corals growing with decent color.


so keeping on topic, for the OP, good luck with the frogspawn. it should recover onteh bottom, if it does, start moving it up slowly taking into consideration the PAR number discussed in the replies. And, the Fluvals have limitations, but as thaitopher says, you can add additional lights to boost the lighting without having to go deep in the pocket

 

[thaitopher]

I 100% agree with this. i have cheap chinese LEDs cranking cheato growth in my sump, and since adding more demanding corals to my tank I took my original fluval marine and reef out of retirement and added them to my 2.0 wifi to give a mid-day boost and more coverage. If I didn't have other demands for my money, I'd get two kessils, but for under $200, hard to ignore corals growing with decent color.

No kidding. I would take a Kessil any day over the cheap Chinese LEDs but it's hard to put $1,000 down for it knowing I can get same output from my Chinese LEDs. I do wish I had a PAR meter to at least have some idea about where I stand but I started on a low light setting and worked my way up which seems to be working.

 

[Zack K]

To sum things up. Frogspawns like stability. Put it down low at the moment and leave it be. They don’t like to be moved a lot.

Just a reminder @thaitopher and @NS Mike D this is a family friendly forum. Let’s just keep the aggression and drama down. Please and thank you!

-Zack

 

[Balanje]

I must say, I love this forum. As someone who has been in the hobby for about a year and a half, but only recently got totally addicted, I love the passion displayed on these boards. For sure, you have helped me significantly.

When I upgraded from my 30 to the 90 gal my LFS talked me into the fuvel light. It’s one of my bigger regrets now that so deep in other areas that I wish I researched lighting more before dropping a few hundred on a mediocre unit. I can’t justify casting it aside now (yet anyway).

That’s said, I’m pretty much at my fish capacity and looking to focus more on coral. I’ve done well with the easier softies. Being my lighting is meh I figured I’d skip the sps and go with the lower light needing lps. However, I’m seeing that is just as tricky.

Anyway, it may be too late for my frogspawn but I consider it the cost of education on this hobby so I truely appreciate all the responses on the topic.

I dropped him into the sand so fingers crossed he comes back. I did see my filefish dive down for a hit so there could be something to that suggestion. He’s never done it that I’ve seen in the past but maybe he likes this guy... I’ll keep an eye on that one.

 

[Balanje]

I've never owned one, but is it possible the filefish is the culprit? I think I've heard of them eating acans before.

So I tried dropping this guy in a few different places in the tank and targeting feeding him... he was sucked in there pretty good. I then saw my torch was retracting a bit and saw the filefish suspiciously around it. I decided to donate the little guy back to my LFS. Sad day as he was one of my originals.

That said, torch is back in full force and for giggles I glued my ‘dead’ froggy back where I wanted him. Just today the little trooper sprouted some life!

That dang Horn Trooper!

@JonCollegeReefer gets the gold star on this thread!

 

[Idaho-reefer]

I have high flow and Intense lighting. My frog spawn loves it. How long have you had it in there?

 

[Balanje]

I have high flow and Intense lighting. My frog spawn loves it. How long have you had it in there?

I got him end of December. He was doing pretty well for a few weeks and then just sucked in. Didn’t seem to like high flow but he was doing well up high in the beginning.

My torch is very high in the tank and seems to love it. Everything I read says he should be low, even in the sand, but I’m wary to move it seeing as it’s doing well.

 

[4FordFamily]

That’s a goner, sorry

 

[Balanje]

That’s a goner, sorry

Yea? Even though it started peeking back out a bit? There’s no coming back from that? I’ve never seen a recovery but I’ve also never seen any sort of bounce back. It’s always straight downhill in my very limited experience

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Not irresponsible at all to use a light from a manufacturer without a PAR table. Many reefers do it. All you have to do is to start low and then slowly ramp up the lighting. Don't be such a condescending

There's no need to call someone an idiot for having a different opinion than yours. If you disagree with their point of view or opinion, that's fine: this forum is really all about discussing differences in methods, opinions and experiences. But if someone is "wrong" or an "idiot" because they have a different opinion, then we're in real trouble as a hobby (well, really, as a human race, but that's a different can of worms).

Let's please keep the discussion civil, even if it gets heated.

 

[Zack K]

So I tried dropping this guy in a few different places in the tank and targeting feeding him... he was sucked in there pretty good. I then saw my torch was retracting a bit and saw the filefish suspiciously around it. I decided to donate the little guy back to my LFS. Sad day as he was one of my originals.

That said, torch is back in full force and for giggles I glued my ‘dead’ froggy back where I wanted him. Just today the little trooper sprouted some life!

That dang Horn Trooper!

@JonCollegeReefer gets the gold star on this thread!

Looks great! If I had found this thread sooner I would have placed money on either Peppermint shrimp or Filefish. Glad you found it before it’s too late!

 

[4FordFamily]

Yea? Even though it started peeking back out a bit? There’s no coming back from that? I’ve never seen a recovery but I’ve also never seen any sort of bounce back. It’s always straight downhill in my very limited experience

I could be wrong, but if I were a betting man it’s not a bet I’d take, it doesn’t look good :/

 

[Zack K]

I just noticed the pink and green hammer is behind the Frogspawn [emoji23] Yea he looks a little rough but might pull through. Agree though not a bet I want to take

 

[Idaho-reefer]

I would just leave it in there and let it be..no reason to toss it until there isn’t life in it.