Is Hawaii Close For Good?

[brick-brothers]

I've been checking out the prices of ppl selling tangs on these forums. Prices are alil crazy. So my question is, is Hawaii closed for good? Ask for a friend

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I agree! They look so ugly with the scars on their face. They all have them.

Its like they found the omega...the fish that is literally so repulsive that it would spawn with a rock if the darn thing winked at it and then found a fish that was about to die and it's last dying wish was to spawn once before it died. There are your biota fry.

 

[3429810]

I agree! They look so ugly with the scars on their face. They all have them.

Candy corals here in Ontario had some nice looking captive breds when I was in there about a month ago. Didn’t look that close at all of them but the ones I saw were in good shape.

 

[Miami Reef]

Its like they found the omega...the fish that is literally so repulsive that it would spawn with a rock if the darn thing winked at it and then found a fish that was about to die and it's last dying wish was to spawn once before it died. There are your biota fry.

I’m gonna find a picture of them.

I’ve tried 3 a few months ago and they all died.

Now that I QT everything, I purchased another one (baby) and it wouldn’t fricking eat! No matter what!

I went back to the LFS and returned it. I asked the owner to feed the group of new baby tangs (so I can purchase another one) and NONE of them ate!

Luckily for me, one of the shop’s customer tore down their tank and sold their XL Hawaiian YT…I purchased it.

My reasoning was that I spent more money on ugly dead baby yellow tangs…Buy once cry once…

 

[Tamberav]

I’m gonna find a picture of them.

I’ve tried 3 a few months ago and they all died.

Now that I QT everything, I purchased another one (baby) and it wouldn’t fricking eat! No matter what!

I went back to the LFS and returned it. I asked the owner to feed the group of new baby tangs (so I can purchase another one) and NONE of them ate!

Luckily for me, one of the shop’s customer tore down their tank and sold their XL Hawaiian YT…I purchased it.

My reasoning was that I spent more money on ugly dead baby yellow tangs…Buy once cry once…

Strange they were not eating. A LFS just got a biota order in and all fish including the tangs look and acting good. They posted a video of them going nuts for food.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Will the numbers you posted still apply? It doesn't seem like all that many yellow tangs to bring the price down much given a large portion will never survive to our tanks. Will these fish be shipped to the US or is this an international market?

That is being determined and PIJAC should be releasing current findings soon.

 

[Miami Reef]

Here was my worst case with a baby yellow tang. Unfortunately it was my fault for not checking it well enough before purchasing from LFS (3 months ago), but it goes to show that Biota does NOT have quality control!

 

[Tamberav]

Batch my LFS just got in. They don’t look bad to me in the photos. Pale because they are tiny but eating like vicious sharks. Debating on picking up a captive bred marine beta from them.

I bought a wild caught yellow tang before hawaii shut down. It was skinny, had lateral line and a eye infection. Came in that way to the LFS that day! It looks great now after QT and TLC though.

 

[jimk60]

Batch my LFS just got in. They don’t look bad to me in the photos. Pale because they are tiny but eating like vicious sharks. Debating on picking up a captive bred marine beta from them.

I bought a wild caught yellow tang before hawaii shut down. It was skinny, had lateral line and a eye infection. Came in that way to the LFS that day! It looks great now after QT and TLC though.

I agree most of the yellow tangs I saw for sale before the shutdown did not look good at all. How much are these going for?

 

[Tamberav]

I agree most of the yellow tangs I saw for sale before the shutdown did not look good at all. How much are these going for?

I can ask if I go there today. Less then on biotas website likely. I say that cuz I know the marine beta is 160 and it’s 200 on biotas site.

 

[Miami Reef]

At my LFS they are about 150

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I've been checking out the prices of ppl selling tangs on these forums. Prices are alil crazy. So my question is, is Hawaii closed for good? Ask for a friend

No

we will be back soon

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Will the numbers you posted still apply? It doesn't seem like all that many yellow tangs to bring the price down much given a large portion will never survive to our tanks. Will these fish be shipped to the US or is this an international market?

A large portion die in transport?
Is this what you’re suggesting? This isn’t accurate. Less than 1% perish from collection all the way to the retailer. There was actually a study done on this.

the price will come down tremendously. We reduced our historical take from 265kaverage, to 200k. It’s a reduction but nothing to worry about. Most of our fish will arrive in the US market

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

But they are ugly emaciated looking fish. Pass

And totally not necessary. The Hawaii aquarium fishery is the most studied, most well managed AQ fishery in the WORLD!! We have scientist locally and from around the world doing short and long term studies in the WHRFMA for the last twenty years.
Aquaculture should play a role in our trade. They should be focusing on fish that don’t do well in captivity, hard or dangerous to catch, not allowed to be caught, or from fisheries that have poor management and don’t operate in a sustainable manner.

breeding fish that are from a well managed system is ethically wrong on so many levels

 

[3429810]

And totally not necessary. The Hawaii aquarium fishery is the most studied, most well managed AQ fishery in the WORLD!! We have scientist locally and from around the world doing short and long term studies in the WHRFMA for the last twenty years.
Aquaculture should play a role in our trade. They should be focusing on fish that don’t do well in captivity, hard or dangerous to catch, not allowed to be caught, or from fisheries that have poor management and don’t operate in a sustainable manner.

breeding fish that are from a well managed system is ethically wrong on so many levels

I agree with everything up to the last part. Captive bred over taking a fish from a reef is not ethically wrong in any way as long as the breeding environment is suitable and maintained. Honestly there is a better argument in terms of ethics for the opposite of what you said being true but that’s besides the point here.

Not every species is able to be aquacultured and Hawaii will close for good at some point as will a lot of places it’s only a matter of time. When that happens it won’t matter how good the fisheries were managed or how hard it is to catch the fish. The only thing that matters is how many species of fish and coral are aquacultured from the region before it shuts down. The more data we have in the industry and the more practice people have at breeding the better.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I agree with everything up to the last part. Captive bred over taking a fish from a reef is not ethically wrong in any way as long as the breeding environment is suitable and maintained. Honestly there is a better argument in terms of ethics for the opposite of what you said being true but that’s besides the point here.

Not every species is able to be aquacultured and Hawaii will close for good at some point as will a lot of places it’s only a matter of time. When that happens it won’t matter how good the fisheries were managed or how hard it is to catch the fish. The only thing that matters is how many species of fish and coral are aquacultured from the region before it shuts down. The more data we have in the industry and the more practice people have at breeding the better.

Having worked a lifetime on both sides of the issue is what leads me to my opinion. I believe that It is unethical to focus on aquaculture of animals from a working management plan that is scientifically vetted for a variety of reasons. The main reason being that you can’t aquaculture your way out of every problem. At some point we need to believe in the schemes that humans create to manage ourselves, especially when they work. If we can’t understand and believe in this, we have big problems that lie ahead for mankind.There is a role that aquaculture plays in the bigger picture but I believe it should be in balance with sustainable fisheries, not working against them. Keep in mind just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. There are many problems that will occur that I think you’re not carefully considering such as stripping many of these places of their livelihoods causing a disinterest in stewardship and an increase in destructive behavior
Also, aquaculture isn’t a zero impact solution. There are many issues associated with it that often fly under the radar of people who are sometimes naive. Nobody does a better job producing these animals than Mother Nature herself,and if science concludes that it’s a working system, this should be fostered and celebrated
Again, im not against aquaculture. I’ve worked in that field for a very long time. I used to actually believe differently, perhaps even like you. But then I gained wisdom working through science based fishery management and this changed my view entirely. Many people who are all about aquaculture have a myopic POV
Have a nice day my friend

 

[davidcalgary29]

But they are ugly emaciated looking fish. Pass

Not the ones that I've seen come in from ORA and/or Biota. I was actually tempted by one of the last shipments that came into a local FS (at $190 CAD each), until I remembered that urchins take care of all my algal needs. And that I don't like tangs.

200,000 yellow tangs a year? My god the death rate in transport must be through the roof. Or maybe they're a secret culinary delicacy.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Not the ones that I've seen come in from ORA and/or Biota. I was actually tempted by one of the last shipments that came into a local FS (at $190 CAD each), until I remembered that urchins take care of all my algal needs. And that I don't like tangs.

200,000 yellow tangs a year? My god the death rate in transport must be through the roof. Or maybe they're a secret culinary delicacy.

There is actually a study on this.
It’s less than 1% from collection to retail

that number may seem large to you but it’s actually an extreme reduction over historical take despite the fact that during that period numbers of fish in all areas increased 110%.

These fish are distributed worldwide

 

[3429810]

Having worked a lifetime on both sides of the issue is what leads me to my opinion. I believe that It is unethical to focus on aquaculture of animals from a working management plan that is scientifically vetted for a variety of reasons. The main reason being that you can’t aquaculture your way out of every problem. At some point we need to believe in the schemes that humans create to manage ourselves, especially when they work. If we can’t understand and believe in this, we have big problems that lie ahead for mankind.There is a role that aquaculture plays in the bigger picture but I believe it should be in balance with sustainable fisheries, not working against them. Keep in mind just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. There are many problems that will occur that I think you’re not carefully considering such as stripping many of these places of their livelihoods causing a disinterest in stewardship and an increase in destructive behavior
Also, aquaculture isn’t a zero impact solution. There are many issues associated with it that often fly under the radar of people who are sometimes naive. Nobody does a better job producing these animals than Mother Nature herself,and if science concludes that it’s a working system, this should be fostered and celebrated
Again, im not against aquaculture. I’ve worked in that field for a very long time. I used to actually believe differently, perhaps even like you. But then I gained wisdom working through science based fishery management and this changed my view entirely. Many people who are all about aquaculture have a myopic POV
Have a nice day my friend

You never even addressed my main point about them eventually shutting down which eliminates the ethical or scientific/conservation argument altogether. Like I said all that matters at that point is how many species were cultured from the region. You live in Hawaii I’m assuming. A Hawaii shutdown wouldn’t affect your ability to get Hawaiian livestock but it would affect the rest of us. That is why aquaculture and aquaculture research is critical right now while we still have the means to do it. Everywhere might not shut down but there will be a large number of places in say 15-20 years we cannot get corals or fish from unless things change drastically.

 

[Avengerx77]

Is the ban applying for fish or also for corals? We are facing similar issues in the country for corals, but can’t recall if it was due to local restrictions or is coming from somewhere else

 

[Reef Jockey]

Here's the latest news on the Hawaii ban on aquarium fish collecting

Accepted by default: BLNR’s tie vote opens the door for aquarium fishing EIS

<p>A revised final environmental impact statement proposing the reopening of West Hawaii’s coastal waters to aquarium fishing is poised to gain acceptance from the state Board of Land and Natural Resources.</p>

www.hawaiitribune-herald.com